Wednesday, February 17, 2010
Playing with Assumptions
I started my new story a few weeks ago after fighting off the muse as long as I could. I’m nervous about it though and not just because there’s not a hint of paranormal about it. That definitely isn’t helping, of course. How will I solve problems between characters if they can’t even use magic or ESP?
No, I’m worried because my heroine, in a straight Regency, comes to realize that she likes being sexually liberated. She was a courtesan for years, even begins the story as a courtesan, and when she’s able to get out of that profession, she realizes she’s not able to play at being proper now. She’s worked hard to make herself financial stable. She doesn’t feel like playing a role for society. In fact, she ends up seducing the hero, who’s much more concerned about how society views him than she is.
So, ultimately, my heroine is the rogue and my hero is the prim maiden (without the virginity thing).
And in true romance fashion, my maiden softens my rogue and my rogue brings out the recklessness in my maiden. Their genders are just reversed.
But honestly, I’m nervous of how it’s going to play out. I’m messing with conventions that are pretty firmly entrenched and, like all times when messing with convention, it has the possibility to backfire in my face. Crafting my characters has been interesting, challenging. A lot of fun. But will it work out? Dunno yet.
Have you ever messed with a major romance convention? Did it work out or not so much? What authors do a good job of turning convention on their ears? And how do you even feel about the fact that there are conventions at all?
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47 comments:
I adore screwing around with assumptions! Sounds a totally delish story.
Well, I always majorly mess with convention...not always the romance aspects... Though my newest one, with the silverton romance (as I have dubbed it) certainly flies in the face of conventional wisdom regarding what the market will go for.
But...who cares!? Bwah ha ha!
Conventions are a bit like rules... break them. Break them often. The Surrender of a Lady tossed so many conventions and romance rules out the window that I was worried it would have to be marketed as WF and not romance. Luckily, so not the case. So ignoring conventions/rules worked very well for me.
I like your idea, Marn. Sounds like a lot of fun, having the girl mess with the hero's holier than though, straightlaced-ness!
Anna Campbell did a great job turning convention on its ear with Tempt the Devil I'm sure there are tons more... but it's too early for me to think, when I should be writing right now ;)
I like strong independent heroines and your theme sounds fascinating Marnee.
Balogh in her recent 'Seducing an Angel' had a heroine who had been disgraced and labelled an axe murderer after the death of her abusive husband. Desperate for funds she tentatively steps back into society to begin life as a courtesan and seeks a man who will support her. She tries to seduce her chosen one, who turns out to be an angel, and eventually falls in love..... sound familiar? *grin*
You don't have to go the whole hog into paranormal. Every society has people with very unusual talents, often related to a touch of autism. There are also secret societies which can impart a paranormal flavour. Amanda Quick in her 'Arcane Society' series dabbles with this aspect involving links to alchemy and psychic abilities.
Quick in her 'Vanza' series also gives an unusual twist to romance, invoking devotees of that ancient philosophy which mixes meditation and martial arts.
This is a bit long and rambling for me!
Just trying to make helpful comparisons. 8)
I've loving this story. I took one romance convention and flipped it one it's head -- that the characters can't have sex with anyone else after having sex with each other. LOL.
JR Ward is a good example, in Lover Awakened, when it was the hero who had been sexually abused and the heroine who was more sexually confident and helped him through it.
It's risky, but when it works, it can *really* work!
The premise sounds awesome, Marn. I also agree with Tiff - break the rules and break them often. It is often the rule breakers who become the trailblazers. Blaze your trail! I'm pretty much convinced anything can work in the hands of the right author (you :)).
The example that comes to mind immediately, of course, is Susan Elizabeth Phillips. Her portrayal of Sugar Beth in Ain't She Sweet was pretty risky, IMHO. I was so used to the heroines being nearly perfect and very lovable. Sugar Beth was far from perfect and everyone hated her! By the end of that book I was totally in love with her and wanted her to get her HEA.
Chance - I knew you'd be right on board with messing around with assumptions/conventions. :) LOL! And I admire your courage. Sometimes I think it's worrying about the market and then I thinks sometimes the market just catches up with what we're doing. Go get 'em.
Tiff - The Surrender of a Lady definitely does break some conventions, but that's one of the things I liked about it. Different. Fresh. New. :) Those are good things.
And Anna Campbell is a master of messing with conventions. Fabulous.
Every society has people with very unusual talents, often related to a touch of autism.
Autism? Really this is fasinating. Q, I love how science can explain the seemingly unexplainable.
Q - actually, I just read the first of Kleypas' Hathaway series. And there was a ghost in it. I thought that was pretty interesting, all tied with the gypsy assumptions that a person can keep another person's soul on earth. Very interesting.
Hal - you know I love love Lover Awakened. I think what you mention is one of the reasons why. Well, and I just can't help myself loving Zsadist. I think most of us do. I think I even read that Ward loved him more than the rest of the brothers.
And I'm glad you're loving this story. That means lots to me.
Irish - Awh, you're sweet! thanks for the vote of confidence! :) We'll see how it goes. It's been fun to plot. And while I like the paranormal stuff, it's kinda nice to ground myself in reality this time.
I haven't read Ain't She Sweet? but SEP is a master. I'll have to pick that one up at the library.
Jules - I think that we haven't even started touching on the brain's full potential. And there are definitely things I've seen I haven't been able to explain.
I think it sounds hilarious, having the flirty heroine charm the stodgy hero into bed. And as they have already referenced: Anna Campbell seems to be thriving in tossing conventions on their ear...or other parts.
I had the story where the hero was married. I'm not so sure if that was a convention flouting as a suicide, but I liked my story. And I like how it turned out. *shrugs*
Now I have a "paranormal" (of sorts) in which no one is a vampire...or anything paranormal conventional; it's like Bridget Jones-paranormal and instead of using entirely "fictional" characters, I'm using Adam and Eve. Which is a sort of other suicide, esp if I enter any other contests. I can imagine the scripture quotations I'd get this time.
But that's about as unconventional as I get. Romantically speaking, I'd rather the boy do the chasing. Since that's my fantasy and all--to be chased.
But I do enjoy reading about a girl who chases a boy and makes it all seem like its his idea in the end. Or she's a hoyden; and he's starchy--like the hero in Slightly Dangerous. I laughed my ass off in that book--I imagine your book will be just as funny and delightful.
If you feel passionate about your idea and your characters, then I don't think it can be wrong.
I agree that we haven't even started to touch upon the brain’s full potential yet, Marnee.
Which maybe ... considering the state of the world ... isn't a bad thing. And as a woman who has spent many an hour listening the the dialogue that goes on between teenage girls... well All I have to say is They def Think To Much.
I think the heroine who charms/unfreezes the hero taps into the fantasy of "our love can heal anything". The ultimate nurturer's fantasy.
Hellie - I think it'd be easier if my heroine was just flirty. In actuality, she's passed flirty and hit straight up seductress. :)
I think using Adam and Eve definitely flies in the face of convention. You're taking on some serious preconceived notions. That's courageous and exciting. Though I agree, you're going to get some scripture. I'm not sure you can avoid that. LOL!
I have a BROAD definition of flirty. Ask anyone.
Well, I don't plan to enter any contests, for one. If by a miracle it was published, then sure I could expect some scripture then, but otherwise...
Mmmm... I think I'd like your definition. :)
It'll be easier to chuckle about the scripture mailings when the book's in print.
If by a miracle it was published, then sure I could expect some scripture then, but otherwise… IMO, I think that our story should be published. The modern world should spend more time talking about relationships & redemption & God's forgiveness. Talking about things gets people to think about things. And hopefull the thinking will lead to action.
Here's the scripture that comes to mind when I hear you talking about some people's reaction to your story:
" Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me: thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me..."
So I should quote scripture back to them? *LOL* I love how your mind thinks, Jules.
MAKE that Your story. Jeez the 'Y" is sticking on my keyboard! Which leads me to ask "Why? Why don't I have a Y? MaYbe its a sign from God?"
Speak unto them the way they would speak unto you.
Might I sudgest a little Psalm 3:6? You know the one that goes "I will not be afraid of many thousands of people who have set themselves against me all around."
Plus I'll let you borrow my Industrial strength OSHA certified Lovely Kelly Green Chemical Suit … that way when they start to throw rotten tomatoes at you Hellion, then you can say “Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-na!”
Sorry! I don't know any Bible quotes trhat refer to rotten tomatoes.
Well, duh, Jules, the plague of Egypt...it rotted everything right? The rotten tomatoes go there.
Oh Marn, I love the idea of this new story you're working on. We all know I love historical romance. I heart the thought of the maiden chasing after the man. I can just see her stolen glances and flirtatious acts and slipping into a dark room and kissing him and everything gets so heated... *sigh* This is going to be fabulous!
I really think Lisa Kleypas does a great job at turning convention on its ear. I think it's one of the main reasons I enjoy her historicals so much. They feel real to me, but she flirts with the fine lines.
See Hellion? If you know how to handle the rotten tomatoe question, then you can easily handle the rotten people who Would chastise you for writing about Adam & Eve & Lucy.
Which leads me back to Marnee's question about writers turning convention on their ears. I say write the story that you are most passionate about. If you think that you are going to be critised for your story plot line then Just make sure that you can justify or explain why you wrote the story the way you did. Personally? I think that anything goes as long as you can back up what you did with a rational explanation. Just my opinion.
BTW Marnee, I love the idea of your new story too!
Marn, I think a lot of what we see as conventions began with some brave writer breaking the rules. No body bats an eye at courtesan heroines now, but there was great controversy when Diane Gaston wrote The Mysterious Miss M. Your story souns appealing to me. I'd pick up a book with that description in a heartbeat, and, as you all know, my tastes are fairly conservative.
Hellie, I know you dislike Milton, but Adam and Eve after the fall are quite earthy in Paradise Lost. Even in their prelapsarian state it's clear they enjoy sex, and that their joy is sanctioned by God. And postlapsarian, they are lusty creatures and also experts at buck passing. You can claim the greatest Puritan poet as a precedent. :)
I don't know if there is a lot of rational explanation for why you did something. Mostly the answer is: Because I wanted to. If you look at the "facts" around most given endeavors (falling in love, having children, getting married, writing a novel), there's more reasons NOT to.
Sin - Thanks! I'm glad you like. We'll see how it goes. :)
And Kleypas is a genius all the way around. What I like about her is that she flirts with fine lines but it's almost like she does it so nicely that you don't know she's messing around. Fabulous.
Jules - I love all your suggestions for Hellie. I agree too, that backing up with a rational argument is all that's necessary. And thanks for the vote of confidence.
Janga - I actually just picked up a Gaston novel. I'd put off reading historicals for a long time and I just got back into them the past few months. So, we'll see how that goes. :) And I'm glad you like my description too! :)
Hells says, "If you look at the “facts” around most given endeavors (falling in love, having children, getting married, writing a novel), there’s more reason NOT to."
LOL! I love your takes on things.
Fluffy puppies. That's me.
Sorry I'm late. More ballrooms. *sigh*
To combine Jules with a little Deb Dixon, anything goes as long as you write it well enough.
I love the sound of this story. And of course, the hero would never be able to resist such temptation. And when he finally says to hell with society, it's going to be so satisfying. LOL!
Sorry, Marn, I was having a dark morning. I was thinking that in the end, my sister might actually be deemed the more successful sister because she got married (twice), has kids and grandkids, supports her family, and seems happy. (You know how in rural areas that true success is measured how how soon you get pregnant and married. I'm clearly an utter failure.)
And all I could think was--if someone says "Why didn't you get married?"--"If I ever want to get anything that is a bad idea and only gets more regrettable as time goes on, I'll get a tattoo. The pain will be temporary instead of unending."
I think I'll share that at the next family reunion actually.
I have no idea how you're going to get it past an editor, but let me know when it hits the book shelves because this is my kind of book.
Bo'sun - The way I'm planning it out, I think it will be satisfying when he finally gets past his hang ups. But then, it should be just as good when she gets past hers. Though hers are a little more complex than his.
Hells - LOL!! Tattoo > marriage in your parallel. I love that. Though I have a much different experience with marriage than that, I can appreciate the skepticism. I've seen a lot of marriages fall apart. It definitely isn't easy work. It helps if you can find someone to laugh about the rough times with, I think.
But ain't it true that rural life seems to think the faster you make it happen the better. Frankly, if I married the first time I got pressure to do so (before I left college... hell, before I even made it halfway through college there was talk) I suspect it would have been a lot more difficult than the marriage I did make ten years later.
Alice - Hi! I will keep you posted. I'm going to hang on to Ter's advice. If I do it well enough, maybe some editor'll forget that I'm breaking some big rules. :)
That's that attitude, Marn. Doesn't matter how many "no's" you get, it only takes one "yes". :)
Definitely looking forward to reading this one. And I'm thanking my lucky stars my family never mentions marriage. Though I never see my family and I suppose when I have seen them, I've been asked about it. Can't even remember how I dodge it. Huh.
Yeah, well, I do enjoy romances...so there is that one rebellious little gene that hopes *I* could score one of those marriages that wasn't completely awful. Or was awful in the Chris Wren way (awesome).
Hmmm...you do ask the tough questions, Marnee. :) I think Jules is right when she says, I think that anything goes as long as you can back up what you did with a rational explanation.
I guess when I think of "courtesan heroines" in books that I've read there has always been an excuse...that it was a misunderstanding or she was acting the role - - the hero and/or society might believe she is, but she's not really and the reader knows it. I see that a lot; the "love me like I am" scenario, but she really isn't that way. Some how, some way, even when the heroine is raised to be a courtesan or is a known mistress and she remains a virgin - - maybe her benefactor is impotent or something! There's always an excuse. :) And it's effective as a means to get the hero and heroine in bed and then have him all guilty when he realizes she's innocent. Or, I have read a "true" courtesan (actually a prostitute, which is a difference), but she felt guilt (circumstances led her down that path) and then she gets reformed.
And how do you even feel about the fact that there are conventions at all?
I would have to say I appreciated the "romance conventions" of these excuses being in place.
But, with your story of her actually liking being a courtesan (with no excuse?)I'm so curious how you characterize her. I went looking around on google just to see if I could find other unrepentant courtesan heroines and, besides Anna Campbell, found another for a review with lots of varied views in the comments on Lorretta Chase's book with a courtesan. The blog has some links also "why women became courtesans." http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/your-scandalous-ways-by-loretta-chase/
I always think the courtesan who's actually a virgin is a cheat. Like the widow. *LOL* I understand the convention within romance novels to have the virgin--because we all want to think there is only ONE man who can awaken our sexuality that way. But that's just one fantasy. There is also the fantasy that you like men and sex and pleasing yourself. Does that make you that unlikeable if you are? (Everyone's got their own fantasy, right?)
I think to have been a successful courtesan, you'd have to LIKE men. And I think Marn sounds like she's writing about a successful courtesan. Usually you don't go into a career of selling yourself/sex unless you're in dire straits--so maybe having some fun with men sounded less exhausting than putting up with old Mrs. Bodikin who likes to take tea precisely at 4 pm and whose dog piddles on everything. Or with someone else's bratty kids, while trying to outwit the lord of the manor who is trying to seduce you. If the slightest rumor could ruin you anyway, why not profit from it and have some fun while you were at it? Plus your wardrobe is a lot cooler than most women's.
It's not by any means an ideal situation, but technically for the period, NEITHER situation (a marriage of convenience OR be a courtesan) was ideal--but the former is more embraced. Why? I think it's because the courtesan is a freethinker, a sort of heretic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Armistead
I definitely agree that there were women who liked being successful courtesans. I think that's fact and not just a fantasy. :) I imagine there were maids and governesses who wished to be a courtesan but didn't have the polish or the beauty. If I had a choice (and all those things I don't have like polish and beauty), heck ya, I'd pick being a courtesan over a governess! *LOL* Successful courtesans could have all sorts of freedoms and advantages; financial, cultural and intellectual, and yes, the sex too that they probably wouldn't trade for marriage. It was their choice...if successful...and I think that's what makes them such interesting characters. But what they wouldn't have is complete social acceptance (beyond their benefactor being proud to bring them to the opera). That social acceptance, if not wanted by or important to the courtesan heroine, is something she might think of for the hero. I think, that's what made for some "tragic romances" in real life (and literature) and what makes it hard in "romance convention" is the huge challenge to create a HEA. How will that ever after work out?
But Marnee, I 'm only saying that I wouldn't know how to begin. I'd definitely buy this book though, because of the fascinating challenge, and wish I were brave enough to try this! :)
Sort of a caveat...
My courtesan doesn't exactly LOVE being a courtesan. Initially, she did it to support her family. She's been saving money to get out and retire since the beginning. But after she does get out, she realizes that she doesn't want to play the proper role. She likes that she was able to speak his mind, is glad that she isn't afraid of sex. That's sort of her revelation. That though she's no longer a courtesan at the end, she's very comfortable with her opinions and her body as a result of it. In a very "even bad times make us into who we are" kind of way.
So, it's not that she's excited to be a courtesan, she just accepts it as where her life has taken her. And she doesn't feel guilty about it. She just thinks it's a crappy job.
I always think the courtesan who’s actually a virgin is a cheat. Like the widow.
I BEG your pardon? I am Not a cheat!
Seriously, read Liz Carlyle's A Woman of Virtue.
I've sworn off Wiki ... ever since I saw ... well never mind. But Trust me IT Was Scary!
PS, I've really appreciated you guys and your takes on the courtesan issue. It's given me lots to think about today. :)
I just finished Chase’s Your Scandalous Ways last week.
I have to agree with Candy from Smart Bitches when she said:
“love Francesca because she’s an unrepentant, magnificent, ruinously expensive whore, and because she doesn’t mince words about it.”
P.S. Marnee, I love this
She likes that she was able to speak his mind, is glad that she isn’t afraid of sex. That’s sort of her revelation. That though she’s no longer a courtesan at the end, she’s very comfortable with her opinions and her body as a result of it. In a very “even bad times make us into who we are” kind of way.
I think I need to read that. Your Scandalous Ways, huh? Perfect.
And Jules, thanks. That means a lot to me. :) She seems very real to me. She wouldn't leave me alone while I tried to start something else right after the holidays. I hope that's a good thing in the end. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_courtesans
Good place to start researching?
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