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Thursday, February 4, 2010
Feisty Friday
Been a rough week, crew. I wrestled with deep despair over contest results. Again. (Crew, do not let me enter another contest. Ever. Club me with a rum bottle, hang me from the yardarm by my feet if I ever, ever babble about entering another one, ever.)
Our dear Bo’sun hauled me outta the pits and set me straight. So, I’m better now. But…still been a scrappy week. Felt like Hellion was going to toss me overboard a few times for disagreeing with her and refusing to acquiesce to being lashed.
So, let’s pick a few fights today. Get it all out there and bloody up the deck. The rum will flow… I’m serving up Feisty Friday Freezes.
Number one. I don’t read what I write. Who wants to take me on about this one? Now, I have a powerful green eyed jealous monster who rides me back. If I read something I felt I could have done better, should have done better, should have been first, could have been first… I shut down. Convinced it is too late, I suck…you name it. So I don’t read it.
Seldom read it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know…how can I know the genre if I don’t read it. Well, I read about it! So, come on…tell me why I’m so incredibly wrong…
Number two. I also write what I don’t do. Never been a mother, but I’m writing about a conflicted mother. Sue me.
If writers only stuck to what they had personal experience with, no one would write historicals. So, there!
I have a mother, I talk to her…a lot. About being a mother. I read…a lot. And there are so many mothers in fiction. So, I can write one. And there are daddy’s that look good on paper and to a child’s eyes they are fabulous. But are really monsters that deserve walking the plant. Over a volcano. An active volcano. Moms, too!
I also write about alien abductions, fairy, pirates and a ton of things I have no personal experience with.
Sin? Every really killed anyone? Wallowed in blood?
Hal? Last arms deal you took part in?
Marn? Have any traffic with demons lately?
Hel? Last time you dated Lucifer?
Now, I know Bo’sun coached the girl’s version of baseball…softball. So, I guess she’s the only one allowed to keep working on her stuff.
OK, Hel might actually have dated Lucifer…
Number Three. Anyone can disagree with me and not be an idiot. I feel pretty strongly about this one.
And Frodo was too a hero.
Moms who go to work do raise their children. And moms who stay home are worth way more than any family can afford to pay them.
Avatar was a good movie.
Anyone else have any tidbits they want to throw in the ring from the last few weeks? Toss it up and see who steps into the ring to duke it out? Do you read what you write? Do you write only what you know? Can you know something well enough by reading about it to write about it, convincingly? Let’s go, I’m feeling feisty!
Our dear Bo’sun hauled me outta the pits and set me straight. So, I’m better now. But…still been a scrappy week. Felt like Hellion was going to toss me overboard a few times for disagreeing with her and refusing to acquiesce to being lashed.
So, let’s pick a few fights today. Get it all out there and bloody up the deck. The rum will flow… I’m serving up Feisty Friday Freezes.
Number one. I don’t read what I write. Who wants to take me on about this one? Now, I have a powerful green eyed jealous monster who rides me back. If I read something I felt I could have done better, should have done better, should have been first, could have been first… I shut down. Convinced it is too late, I suck…you name it. So I don’t read it.
Seldom read it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know…how can I know the genre if I don’t read it. Well, I read about it! So, come on…tell me why I’m so incredibly wrong…
Number two. I also write what I don’t do. Never been a mother, but I’m writing about a conflicted mother. Sue me.
If writers only stuck to what they had personal experience with, no one would write historicals. So, there!
I have a mother, I talk to her…a lot. About being a mother. I read…a lot. And there are so many mothers in fiction. So, I can write one. And there are daddy’s that look good on paper and to a child’s eyes they are fabulous. But are really monsters that deserve walking the plant. Over a volcano. An active volcano. Moms, too!
I also write about alien abductions, fairy, pirates and a ton of things I have no personal experience with.
Sin? Every really killed anyone? Wallowed in blood?
Hal? Last arms deal you took part in?
Marn? Have any traffic with demons lately?
Hel? Last time you dated Lucifer?
Now, I know Bo’sun coached the girl’s version of baseball…softball. So, I guess she’s the only one allowed to keep working on her stuff.
OK, Hel might actually have dated Lucifer…
Number Three. Anyone can disagree with me and not be an idiot. I feel pretty strongly about this one.
And Frodo was too a hero.
Moms who go to work do raise their children. And moms who stay home are worth way more than any family can afford to pay them.
Avatar was a good movie.
Anyone else have any tidbits they want to throw in the ring from the last few weeks? Toss it up and see who steps into the ring to duke it out? Do you read what you write? Do you write only what you know? Can you know something well enough by reading about it to write about it, convincingly? Let’s go, I’m feeling feisty!
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75 comments:
I love it when you get feisty Chance!
I admit, I have not sold an Uzi in the past week. In fact, I've never even touched an automatic weapon or explosives device. So while I can't agree with you on number 1, I can happily agree with you on number 2.
Wow, good thing there are no fourteen year old boys on here, or that last sentence would inspire some giggling and pointing.
I can't think of anything I want to throw out there to duke it out. Which is odd. Usually I'm the first to have strong opinions that piss people off. I'm sure I'll think of something!
“For when the great scorer comes to write against your name, He marks not that you won or lost but how you played the game.”
Chance, I know that Americans like to win at everything but consider that perhaps you are not viewing this from the most advantageous perspective!
Try to think of it more as a village cricket match. In the bar at the end of the game no-one remembers details of the score. As they down their pints of ale, they all reminisce about that wonderful slip catch or whether the fiery fast bowler actually reached 90 mph or the glorious cover drive that won the match or ......
Thats the English way ..... its just so ungentlemanly and uncivilised to worry unduly about the score.
Unless of course those damned Aussies are involved!
As to your other points
Number one. I don’t read what I write.
Now that's just silly. If you don't read what you write, how can you expect anyone else to want to read it.
Oh! you mean you don't read books in the same genre.
Well I can sympathise there. No one can accuse you of plagiarism if you haven't read anything. And with your towering talent, head and shoulders above anyone else in sight, you don't need to bother with the midgets! :lol:
Number two. I also write what I don’t do
Only courteous to the reader to write about something of which you have knowledge or experience. If you are only an observer from a distance you can often bring an unusual or humorous perspective in to play. With motherhood, we all have some experience of that, but if its having babies, then I would advise having one before writing about it.
Probably an irrelevant male perspective! *grin*
Number Three. Anyone can disagree with me and not be an idiot.
Thanks. Very sportsmanlike! I won't spit in yer beer fer that. *smile*
I've come to the conclusion that "rules" were invented, in part, to keep things from changing -- to make sure we all stay in the paths that have been assigned to us. Sigh.
I don't read in my sub-genre when I'm WRITING in that particular one -- I like to read something different, to keep my brain fresh and intrigued. I'm like you too -- I read a lot ABOUT my genres, so I'm up on what's going on.
And when you write about what you KNOW -- it's the EMOTIONS you're writing about. I know nothing about being a detective, or a highwayman -- but I seem to have done it convincingly. I do understand what it's like to fall in love, and to have my heart broken, and other things that my characters -- and readers -- experience.
I'm trying -- but I just can't disagree with you! I'm sorry you're bruised from the contests. Not everyone "gets" our work, and this is probably the case. It doesn't mean you're not a good writer. You may have just gotten some not-so-good readers. :)
Great post. LOVE this place. I learn so much. Now I think I need one of this Feisty Friday Freezes.
LOL! Fiesty Chance. Love it.
First off, sorry about your contest results, hon. That can be rough. :( Were the judges rough?
As for reading in your genre.... I think knowing what the cutting edge is in the genre you're writing is important. For example, in paranormals right now everyone complains about too much vampires and werewolves, but I think they're complaining that there's too much of the same when it comes to vamps and weres. When someone does something interesting with the mythology, then it turns everyone's heads and is deemed fresh. But without reading a wide array of vamps, it'd be hard to know what was fresh, where the line's been drawn before.
I know plenty of people who don't read in their genre while they're writing it though. And I always get the impression you do read a lot of fantasy so are you just being contrary? LOL!! :)
As for writing what you do... I do not have personal experience with demons, thank God. Though there are some people I've met who make me wonder....
I don't think you have to write what you know, at least not so far as occupations or experiences with ghosts or vamps or whatever. I think what's important is tapping into universal emotions and fears, things that readers can relate with no matter what they are (vamp, were... school teacher... arms dealer). Characters in romance feel love after all--a human thing--and to feel that human emotion I assume they need to feel other emotions like humans too, though maybe that's an unfair assumption.
Whew... long post. Sorry about that.
I'm actually bummed I'm going to be too busy to play much today. Stupid that a party that doesn't happen until DECEMBER is taking up my day in FEBRUARY! LOL!
I tried writing a chef and now I'm writing a school teacher. Neither things I have hands on experience with (unless you count teaching pre-school, which I don't). But I can read about teaching, and I've had lots of teachers, and I have teacher friends who have been awesome about answering questions. So I'm doing research. (I know, right? ME do research?!)
If we all knew everything about our writing topics, no one would ever have to do research. And from what I've seen, lots of you enjoy that part quite a bit. LOL!
I usually love a good scrap, but my fiesty will have to wait a while! Looks like Q is ready for a round. (Pints, that is.)
I can't believe out of all the people on the ship, you picked Hells dating Lucifer.
I don't write what I read. I never have. If I did that, I would have to write romance and we all know that I don't really have the voice for that. I have the voice for destroying shit, killing people, and wrecking havoc on the world in general. That's just who my writing persona is.
Hal - OK...ya don't agree with me on the number one feisty challenge. Why? ;)
I mean, honestly...yes, I have read a great deal of fantasy in my life. I mean, like tons of the stuff. I read very little current paranormal, because, to be quite frank...there just isn't something new about vampires or shifters that thrills me. (Save for waltzing vampires...)
So, come on...Hal...what do you really feel about topic number 1!
Q-man! Yes, I do agree, keeping score can be quite vulgar.
I promise, no writing about labor unless I have extensive conversations with those who have gone through it. I mean, I did have one character give birth...in a pouring rainstorm after fighting off an attack by a malevolent creature... But we didn't dwell on the actual birth. A little busy at the time with other details. Hell, she doesn't remember much about it!
I do try to make a point of knowing something about what I write. I just don't always actually do what I write.
And I do read what I write, personally! ;)
Donna - Thanks fer the commiserating about the contests. Appreciated. It's a long stupid story, so I won't go there about it. I know better and the rum bottle is available for smacking me with if I talk about them again.
Ever.
As I admitted to Hal, I have read a ton of fantasy in my life. And I still read my favorite authors. I try to keep current on what others are writing... I just like to read mysteries. Which I don't write. I have no idea why I like to read mysteries, I just do. Always have.
And yes! Eureka! The EMOTIONS! I haven't always done that part right, but I am diligently working on improving that and I think I'm getting there. I mean, I feel what my characters feel, just struggle with getting that across to my reader.
OH! If only they would feel the book in my head!
In a total non-gross way.
Here! Have a Feisty Friday Freeze and let's all chill out!
#1: JK Rowling didn't read fantasy. I doubt she really read children's books. She wrote 7 fantasy children's books. Most would say she's a success.
#2: Nora Roberts isn't a glass blower, scuba diver, or the dozens of other heroines' careers she's written about. Clearly she's written about them plausibly enough to keep people buying. I also surmise people who write historical novels WEREN'T there and are just going for plausibility.
#3: I'm not revisiting this. It's MY Friday too and I'm not in the mood to engage in the fiesty.
Happy Friday all! Mo, sorry your contest results weren't all they were cracked up to be.
Marnee - Interesting thing you brought up... Do these fearsome creatures, or not so fearsome creatures, actually feel the way humans feel? I do love a writer who will toy with that idea and work to get it across to others...
And yes, I do lean toward the contrary...it's me nature.
Now, before someone jumps to the front of the line and brings this up... I don't really write romance, so the romantic emotions aren't always what I'm dealing with. But I agree that emotions in general, do have to be done well. Because humans are reading the books.
Hopefully.
An alien perspective would be interesting though...
And I know what you mean about wondering if demons are strutting about and mucking things up with all of us. I've seen these people in line at Starbucks... ;)
The ones with the lists...
Demonic, if not outright demons.
Bo'sun - Sorry, didn't mean ta skip you!
I know you'll offer up the occassional slap if'n it's needed. Christmas party to plan or not.
Talk about demons walking the earth. Christmas party? Now?
Sin - You do read Kim Harrison. Now, see...the first few Kim's had me jealous monster turned up so fricking loud I couldn't hear myself think. It's not so bad anymore.
Now, not because she still isn't putting out great stuff...but the more complex things have gotten, the less the monster sees her as a rival. Not sure how that happened, but it did and I'm glad. Because now I can read her for pure enjoyment, without all the teeth gashing and head banging.
As I said, I do read some of what is in my genre.
Ah, ya reads romance, Sin? Ya softy!
All right, who is that pod person pretending to be Hellion?
Sigh. No one wants to really argue? Not even about the genre one? I really figured that one would stir up some controversy.
OK, let's just pretend ta fight and mop up blood and drink a whole lot. It's raining again in my town, and though I know the rest of you have been putting up with snow and ice...rain gets to be a drag also...
I'll just drag my ass over to the bar, put away the cutlass...haul out the blender...
Well, since you asked :)
Now, this is given in the spirit of friendly debate, not me trying to criticize or boss anyone around. But my personal opinion (enough caveats there? No? More? lol) is that to improve as a writer, we have to know what our goal is. And our goal, in theory, should be the very top of the game in your particular sub-genre. I'm not saying my goal is to write like Annie Soloman or Anne Stuart (both RITA winners in my genre of romantic suspense/thrillers), but I do want to be as good of a writer as they are. Which means they are who I should be studying.
My advice is to pick an author or two you love. You don't have to read everything out there in your genre, and many, many writers (myself included) struggle to read in the same sub-genre while writing. But if you have a quality goal in mind, like, I want to write emotions as well as (fill in the blank), then you can study what that author does. How do they convey those emotions, specifically? Do they use metaphors? Telling or showing? Action? What can you take from that to improve the way you convey emotions?
You've said you don't like how-to-write books, as they're too abstract. Lots of people don't learn through abstract theory. But we've all got to learn some way. All of us need to be able to spot what's weak in our own writing, AND (this is the important part), we need to be able to spot what we do well, and what other authors do well.
I'm not saying you have to read everything in your genre, but I think that we should all have our eye on what we consider the newest, freshest, best voices in our genre, so we can study and learn from those authors.
I came across a thriller recently I just adored. I set it down thinking, "THIS is what I'm trying to do." And yes, the jealous, self-pitying monster said, "humphf. you'll never write that good." But I ignored him. I broke it down, wrote up whole outlines. I looked at this author's plot -- where did he start escalating the plot? Where did he reveal big information? Where did he leave room for character development? I tried to pick out all those things that I really loved, so that I could use the same tools to improve my own story.
I didn't copy his plot. I didn't even use the same structure, but studying how someone else in my genre succeeds gives me more options, tools, and knowledge to apply to my own writing.
And after that diatribe, I'll shut up now :)
jeez, that was even longer than I thought. Well, you wanted a debate!
It's a great idea, in theory. I actually tried to take apart a book I consider in my general genre. Had the higlighters all ready. Even chose a book I'd already read, thinking that would help me not get all caught up in the book.
Uh huh.
Never made it past page five with the highlighters. Two reasons, I got caught up in the story. And...I just couldn't face marking up a book. Old parent messages...
Sigh.
But I did pay better attention than I normally would. About the things you state. POV, emotions, pacing...in a general fashion.
And it did help...
I read the last Jim Butcher book on my Sony reader. (Turn Coat...OMG! So frigging good!) And though I normally delete the books out of my reader when I'm done...I didn't do that with his. (They stay in the big library on my computer, don't worry!) Because this book totally blew me away with the angst and action and emotion...and my monster didn't bellow insults at me. I knew, this was the master and you don't bellow around the master.
You absorb and learn and pray this greatness touches you. At least I do.
Hal - you're the professor and can analyze a book with ease. My brain won't go there, but I do get the gist of what you're saying. And will work on it with the masters I so adore. Like Jim, and Charles and Nina...
Have a Freeze! I guarantee no brain freeze! (I think the rum negates the freeze...)
you’re the professor and can analyze a book with ease. My brain won’t go there.
I gotta call bullshit on that one. No one analyzes a book with ease. It's a skill you learn and train your brain to do. And with every skill, the more you practice, the easier it gets. No one can break down a book and analyze it their first try. But if you never practice, you can't learn it.
For me personally, I can't analyze anything in my head. I have to write it down on paper. I usually ramble for a page or two about what I liked or didn't like, and the longer I keep writing down my thoughts, the more my mind starts making connections about *why* I liked or didn't like certain parts.
Other people have to do it out loud. They have to hear themselves say it aloud for their brain to process it. In which case, talking into a tape recorder about a book or a chapter of a book or a scene might make it click might be helpful.
Try photocopying, or printing out one scene you particularly liked. If you're a more tactile (touch) learner, you may need to write notes or make color coded highlights on the page itself. But actually handling the words psychically might help you process it.
OK, not with ease. But with a professor's brain. I think I've been out of school too long.
But I'll give the copying a section a try. I honestly tried to use my highlighters...
I find if I can talk about a book, I can analyze quite easily what is going on. Even how someone does what they do. I'll think about one of those recorder thingies...I like that idea!
Though I will not buy another mini tape recorder! I swear, I find remains of the ones I've bought over the years scattered around the house, like some strange sacrifice to a minor god... I am total poison to them for some reason, and they always revert to little separate pieces for me... :(
wow, my italics were way off!
I came across a thriller recently I just adored. I set it down thinking, “THIS is what I’m trying to do.” And yes, the jealous, self-pitying monster said, “humphf. you’ll never write that good.” But I ignored him. I broke it down, wrote up whole outlines. I looked at this author’s plot — where did he start escalating the plot? Where did he reveal big information? Where did he leave room for character development? I tried to pick out all those things that I really loved, so that I could use the same tools to improve my own story.
I've always wanted to do this with books I really loved--just for this reason. Great response, Hal!!! I totally agree.
Hal - Yeah, those little mini computer corpses haunt me. Really. :)
Have you ever tried to do it, Hel? Am I the only one who gets brain lock and, other than generalities, can't find the stuff I want when I try this?
I have the same problem, Chance, but it's totally a lack of effort on my part. I believe Hal is right, with practice it would get easier and have better results. I've never found the patience to try it. In fact, while I was reading Hal's description of how she pulled the book apart (which sounded great) I found myself thinking, "Boy, that would take a lot of time. Where would I find the time to do that?"
Not saying I *couldn't* find the time. I'd have to *make* the time and for something important I should. But the motivation isn't quite there yet. Since I'm taking 2 ecourses right now, I will declare here that I shall try this in some form in March!
Not for an entire book, no, but I can read a book and pick out passages, et al, of things I like.
When I was reading Lisa Kleypas' last historical--not that I write historicals, but her description is divine--I immediately latched onto her use of referring to the heroine as "rabbit"-like. (Her sister says, "I've always thought of you as a rabbit." The sister is animal-crazy. And she said the hero was more like a cat or something...but that rabbits, while being usually prey make great companions and defend their loved ones.) Okay, I loved how this description of the character was introduced and it was mostly dialogue, revealing both the character of the heroine and the sister (who will have a later book). A two for one there. LATER, when Lisa is talking about the heroine, she talks about her burrowing into the hero--burrowing being a RABBIT term. Just little stuff throughout to remind us of the rabbit description and characterization. It was subtle but it really brought that heroine alive.
It was done with a character revealing dialogue AND a simple sentence later in the book.
I have not done it for an entire book to scope out plot and how plot point 1 and plot point 2, etc, were revealed. I should though because it would make GMC much clearer for me in books and how to apply it to my own writing. Kudos to Hal for doing it! Awesome job!
I will say, that because I'm in school, being *required* to do this makes it LIGHTYEARS easier to find the time. Plus, we have to do it on discussion boards, where people will disagree or rebut our analysis. Nothing like social humiliation for a motivator!
Exactly, Hal. LOL! When I HAD to write a paper, I made the time. Now I need to click my brain to *have to* when it comes to writing without having the knee-jerk "I don't wanna HAVE to do anything else!" reaction.
Really, I'm a four year old at heart. It's sad.
I totally dig the rabbit vision...it really does cast a spell on the reader to see the character. nice thing to pick up on, Hel.
I think that is sort of what I tend to do...but I'm going to work more on paying particular attention to the bits of magic tha says it all...like that.
Bo'sun - I have the time, not the patience. And I'm not sure I have the single-mindedness to do it.
Unless I was facing humiliation...then I might do it. Or I'd just avoid the entire situation and run like a rabbit. ;)
But I always did well in school...hmmmm!
Choosing to be a four year old is sorta cool... I'm with you I don't want to have to do this! Ever! Even if it would be good for me...
Sigh, how come all the things that are good for me are things I don't want to do?
Hal - I love your explanations and your suggestions about analyzing. I might try that. I've looked at a few authors I love that do very action-based deep POV because I love the way that feels. I'm still not sure I can do it, but I love it.
Very fun topic folks. :)
Fun? It's supposed to be Feisty! Darn it!
Chance - The 4-yr old has been fertilized by 99% of my life being *have to* stuff. The writing was a *want to* but then you hear "You have to do it every day" and you rebel. Or rather, I rebel. Rationally, I know I have to do (LOTS OF) this stuff if I want to write well and be published. It's making the rational take the lead and the 4-yr old shut up that is my problem.
Me, too!
For some reason, rational is a real nasty concept to my brain. Especially when it comes to the doing of anything.
Quit snorting!
OMG! I can't believe I forgot! Everyone! Quit, rush into yer cabins and put on yer red pirate panties, pull out yer red headscarves, yer red eyepatches... Today is wear red in support of Women's Heart Health Month!
Being a heart health ... uh... victim? Well, that ain't quite right, but trust me...it's an important thing to be aware of!
Yer heart health, that is!
If yer at work, find a red post it, and stick it above yer heart!
And I'll be back aboard after some running about! When I may pick a fight with one unsuspecting pirate...
I'm like Terri. If you put a "have to" on there my little Catholic girl self rebels. Probably be that way into my 80's. It is kind of like Pavlov's Dog.
I can sympathize with Chance. There have been many a time where I'll sit down and read a really, really awesome contemp(usually SEP) and think I just might as well give it up. I'll never be that good. The dialogue is what gets me. I'm huge into dialogue and when I read great dialogue it's heaven. The most recent spot of greatness was an excerpt on Lisa Kleypas' website from her upcoming Married by Morning. The dialogue not just between Leo and Catherine Marks, but between the whole family just leaves me in a state of awe.
I gots to say here that I don't think of it as a "have to" thing.
For me, writing is like going to the gym. You don't "have to" go to the gym, same as you don't "have to" write. They're things we do for ourselves. I don't know this from firsthand experience as I don't go to the gym, but I've heard that if you get into a groove of going, you feel good about being there every day. You feel icky the days you don't go. I feel that way about writing. If I don't do it every day, I feel icky. And I feel better when I do sit and get it done.
In the middle of my "work-out" I don't always feel good. Actually forcing those 1000 words a day from my brain can be tough work. But after? Ahhh.... The world is right again.
Irish! I didn't even think to blame the Catholic thing for this. LOL! Which is odd since I blame it for damn near everything else.
Marn - Good point. But I could also say I have to go to the gym if I don't want to remain on my current path of competing with Shamu on pant size. But I think you've hit on the "feels good having written something" as opposed to "feels good to write."
When I am writing and it's going, I like it. Heck, I love it. I get so excited I send it to someone before even reading the drivel I've put down, then read it and think, "I so should have read that before." LOL!
Deep down I believe it's my house. Everything is white and sterile and cold. THIS is one of the reasons I'm painting. I want it to feel warm and like a real home. SO, in addition to making the place look better and more like "mine", I'm hoping the new paint color will bring inspiration!
I can sympathize with Chance. There have been many a time where I’ll sit down and read a really, really awesome contemp(usually SEP) and think I just might as well give it up. I’ll never be that good. The dialogue is what gets me. I’m huge into dialogue and when I read great dialogue it’s heaven. The most recent spot of greatness was an excerpt on Lisa Kleypas’ website from her upcoming Married by Morning. The dialogue not just between Leo and Catherine Marks, but between the whole family just leaves me in a state of awe.
Me, too, Irish, but keep in mind, Lisa has published over 20 books, with the acceptance that with each book she completes and publishes, she gets better. When you've published 20+ books, newbie writers will read your dialogue and despair. Never doubt it.
Marn, I always love that line about it always feels good to have written. That's essentially my feeling about going to the gym--not that it keeps me from looking like Shamu though--it's that I feel good from having worked out. Rarely do I feel good about it WHILE I'm doing it. (Except if they're playing Twilight or Harry Potter in the theater room. Amazing how long you can go on a machine with the right movie!)
And I always do feel crankier and more pessimistic the days I don't do it--and it spirals the more days I do it (or don't do it, as it were.)
I agree with Hal. Text analysis is a skill, not a gift. Skills can be learned and practice improves them. I rarely analyze entire books, although I certainly put in my share of doing that on the course of three English degrees and a dissertation. But now, like Hellie, I focus on scenes. I do this particularly in areas I know I'm weak in. For example, I've taken apart several scenes in Nora Roberts' books with guys interacting with one another. Writing those scenes will never come naturally to me, but I'm much better at them for having spent time looking at the kind of language NR uses, examining the proportion of words to body language, searching for changes in cadence. I may occasionally use a highlighter, Chance, but mostly I make notes.
As for the contests, I know negative comments wound. But remember the results are just the opinions of those particular people who, like all of us, have their own set of prejudices and predispositions. Same is true for reviewers. Maybe the bad contest experience is just life's way of getting you prepared for publication.
I never thought of it that way, Janga. I guess if we can deal with the negative feedback on a contest entry, then we'll be better equiped to deal with a bad review later on.
And it's almost a guarantee you'll get a bad review, no matter how good you are. I saw a review last night on Crusie's BET ME where the review HATED the book. She was hateful about it, basically thought it was worhtless drivel. I wanted to jump through my monitor and beat her with her own arm.
I'm so excited cause I've done just what Janga is talking about. Here I am doing something I'm suppose to be doing and didn't even know it.
Actually what I do is take stories that really grab me and look over the dialogue to see how they start and end sentences, paragraphs and shifts in POV. I also look at beginning and end of chapters to see how they make it flow from one to the other or if they change the flow and why.
Just goes to show that what my mother said is right (always a frightening thought) - if there's an interest, anything can appear like fun instead of a chore. Too bad I'm not interested in cooking, cleaning and scrubbing toilets!
Yeah, the gym 'have to' is probably the hardest one to work around. With my health history, it's a sort of 'have to.' Not that I'm presently doing what I 'have to' do, mind you.
Today, I have to write a synopsis. Put it off to the bitter end and have my RWA chapter meeting tomorrow, when I pledged to have it done.
Sigh.
The writing is a glad to have done it thing. There is something divine about looking at a page count and knowing you wrote all that!
Funny thing is...it isn't specifics that set my green eyed monster bellowing. It's the generalities. The world created, the vividness of the plot. Not dialogue. Good dialogue just makes me smile in appreciation. Good description the same. Action? Yup.
I have a very odd green eyed monster...more caught up in the big picture than the little things that make it so special. Though now and then, it's about the little things that suck and I-could-have-done-this-better-with-this-idea thing.
I really have no problem with my ego. My ego gets wounded from contests...more the why was I stupid enough to think this time would be different ego kick in the ass.
*LOL* Irish, I don't think anyone is ever interested in scrubbing toilets.
I like to pay attention to how chapters start and end too. (I like how one of the tricks to delay...and amp the suspense of "what will they do next?" is to switch to a different chapter with different characters. I'm almost always going, "Well, CRAP, I wanted to know what happened next with the H/H!" I've been saying that a lot with SEP's What I Did For Love, which is hilarious! *LOL* So glad to read one of her books not featuring a sports star.)
Hel - I think I'd be surprised if a newbie ever reads my stuff and is stunned by the brilliance of my prose. But I'd like them to be caught by the fabulousness of my imagination... And want to play there.
Is that odd? I'd like to inspire fanfic? I think that would be the ultimate compliment.
Janga, I've been rejected by editors and agents and not felt as bruised as contests leave me. I think...well, because a rejection from an agent/editor means at least I am on the right road. I'm submitting, and that rejection is part of the road I'm on.
A detour to get beat up by contests...contests I shouldn't be entering because my focus isn't on romance...?
Hey, the bruises are me beating myself up more than their beating me up.
Irish, I have a big notebook filled with notes on chapter beginnings and endings and how they reference the H/H--only one? which one? where's the other? I looked at the best books IMO by Nora, SEP, Jenny Crusie, Robyn Carr, Susan Wiggs, Marsha Moyer, Kathleen Gilles Seidel. I wanted to see how to tell a complex story and keep the focus on the H/H at the same time, and they are all great teachers.
Irish - Yes, why can't I feel interest in cleaning and decluttering my house? Beyond the interest in hiring someone to help me, that is.
I know several women who handle their PMS with intense spurts of cleaning their houses. Not me. I eat chocolate and watch television, crying at AT&T commercials.
But I like the idea of paying particular attention to things like how dialogue starts and stops, etc... That would be some good stuff to pay attention to!
And yes, I write better than I blog. I blog like I'm talking...dude.
Man, am I the only one who wishes she could pour through Janga's notebooks? *LOL*
Chance said:
It’s the generalities. The world created, the vividness of the plot.
This is where you need to stop and dig deeper. HOW did they make that plot vivid? What makes up their world? What made it stand out for you? It could be as simple as getting a piece of paper and making notes like "I like that these creatures have X ability" or "This is the one sentence that lit up the plot for me..." and if you do that enough, it's like piecing together the magical clues.
I need to book a long weekend in a cabin somewhere and bring Janga's notebooks along. That would be a dream getaway.
Oooooh! Now, see? I can imagine doing that! See it as a how-did-they-cast-that-spell thing! I've done spellwork that way. Read one, figured out what they did and remade it to suit my needs...
TMI?
Sorry, crew.
Yes, I spellcast.
Don't burn me.
Now, back to the books thing. Yeah, Bo'sun, you got it... Why do I want to go play in their world? Since that seems to be what I long to inspire...
What made me scream in abject self-pity when I read the first Kim Harrison book?
The way she made a meal out of para and norm, keeping them separate but at the same table... That was part of it... Hmmmm... Gotta make a list and check this out!
I'd spill something on them and then have to go shoot myself...
We'll get Janga to invite us over for Sweet Tea and send Ninja Sin off to confiscate the goodies! Then head to Terri's cabin and pour over all the awesome information!
That should be "booked". See, I'm fried.
Sounds good to me. But someone else will have to make the cabin reservation. I have burned all my reserving abilities trying to plan this giant ass party!
HOW can everyone be books for December already?!
Yeah, wondered for a minute when December had turned into a costume party! ;)
Oh, that would be funny. LOL! But this company is full of party-poopers. Nothing fun, just black tie stuff. Which means I HAVE TO hit the gym. LOL! I'm going to need a really fancy dress this time around.
They changed the theme of the closing part at RT...it's prom now. From nice, comfy peddle pushers to prom. Sigh. I am not going that route! Enough clothing/costumes to haul to Columbus!
Topic change--but only because I read the review, I laughed hysterically.
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100203/REVIEWS/100209990
Mind you, I realize in advance I'm likely to still see this movie even though this person said everything (and then some) I've already said about the movie. It's trite and doomed for tragedy, but I can't look away....
I love that this started with you getting all feisty and wanting a fight to a virtual tea party on the ship. LOL! Funny how that turned out.
I think if you want a squabble, you'll have to try it on a Monday. :)
I do like Roger...nicely said! I've been debating throwing off the synopsis need and going to see "Edge of Darkness". I'm not a big Mel fan but I really liked the British mini series this movie is based upon. Though I'm sure the Brits did it better...
I mean, I can pount out a synopsis tonight...it doesn't have to be a good one for tomorrow's meeting. It could be in rough draft form...
Popcorn for lunch sounds good...
Hey! My beloved computer is ready to be picked up! I'm off, be back later!
I can't go see a Nicholas Sparks film just cause I know he never ends anything happily.
I saw It's Complicated with Meryl Streep and Alec Baldwin last weekend. I laughed so hard my side ached. I was just commenting to my friend yesterday that I'm starting to identify with the older couples in movies now instead of the younger ones. Just hit me with this last movie. Kind of a scary thing. Mortality is rearing its ugly head again.
Irish! You'll be ripe fer me 53/65 romance! Which I intend to finish this month... Hee, hee...
Play nice!
LOL, Chance. You sound like my DH. His way of inviting me to a movie is "Want popcorn for dinner?"
Irish, I laughed so hard I rolled at It's Complicated. And raved about it to everyone.
Nice to go see a GROWN UP comedy once in a while.
I think the best thing about seeing It's Complicated is that my expectations were low. I was looking all over for Young Queen Victoria and it has already come and gone. I was really disappointed and settled for It's Complicated instead. And it only cost me $5. All in all it was a great movie-going experience.
Oh, I'm so sad about TYV being gone already. It's available for pre-order to buy on DVD, so I imagine it'll be available to rent somewhat soon!
OK, want to hear how Edge of Darkness was? Not bad! Some fast kick ass violence that made me jump several times. Mel is good, he's not as good as the Brit who played Craven for the BBC...who is better known as the guy trying to keep people alive on Jurassic Park. The hunter guy!
But...they updated it, took out the environmental issues and turned it into making clandestine weapons. Sigh. I liked the other theme better.
But I would. Makes me wish I could pull out the old VHS tape and play it. But I don't have that player anymore! Wonder if the Brit version is available on DVD?
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