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Sunday, February 7, 2010
Divas and D-Listers: What Jeff Bridges and Setting Have In Common
So I was thinking about the setting in The Wolfman. I watched the trailer and was completely sucked into the mood and setting of the story; and I thought, for a total remake, they did an excellent job of choosing the time and location—it was practically a character itself. And yet, description and setting are often disregarded in the realm of importance of writing.
Characterization and Plot are frequently featured like A-list celebrities, while things like Voice, Theme, and Setting often get shunted with Kathy Griffith to the D-list. Tragic, because these very writing techniques are the Jeff Bridges of the writing world. We all know they were absolutely essential to the overall product, but no one remembers to acknowledge them in their Oscar speech. Or give them their own Oscar.
Consider Dracula. A brilliant character, but nothing without the setting he was drawn in. The story wouldn’t work if he were in a setting like modern day California, with all its sunny weather and “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” people. His whole inner-makeup would dissolve like his face in the sun. He needs weather as moody and dramatic as he is, to mirror his moody and dramatic nature. We’re constantly reminded to write bigger, and using setting to the best advantage in our writing is one of the simple ways to show a Bigger Story. (Simple, but not easy.)
And the setting is much more than mere location. The when of the setting is extremely important. Timing is everything. The new movie, The Wolfman, takes place in Victorian England. What better time setting could you have given such a tale? It’s the perfect blend of science and superstition, of the modern and the old. We clearly see the progressive methods of solving crime using Scotland Yard detective work as well as new medical techniques and studies, but at the same time, the threat itself, a wolfman, is a realm of the old world. Not only are we experiencing the hero’s conflict with becoming a monster, but also the conflict of science versus magic (curse). It makes for a much dramatic telling of the story than say Teen Wolf. Which was quite a classic for me growing up, but is pretty much what would happen if we discovered a wolfman now, right? We—in theory—would be accepting of something that was different from us and wouldn’t try to trap it for the discovery of science. We’d bring it in the house and enroll it in high school.
I like to watch movies (obviously, since most of my blogs involve movies), but more than for the story. I like to watch what was included in a screen shot because I know, like scenes in a book, everything is there for a reason. And you can’t fit everything into a screen shot either. You have to focus on what’s most important, especially to the character. What shows character/story the most?
For example, I watched Adventureland and picked out all the very 80s things in the “description.” There were the girls who had their hair styled in that Gilled Lizard sort of fashion (very popular) and had their t-shirt collars ripped out and the bottom tied into a knot so we could see their midriff. Blue eyeshadow. Madonna-esque fashion accessories. All the cars the boys drove were Gremlins or those monster cars that their grandparents would drive. Cassette tapes were predominant; one boy bragged about his CD player that he paid a ton of money for. (In fact, the only thing not very setting authentic was Kristen Stewart, who not only pranced about in low-rise jeans, but whose hair looked exactly like it does from Twilight.)
The best description and setting (in my opinion) is active within the story, the little drops here and there that are explicit to the character themselves. Like the lemondrops on Dumbledore’s desk (you see them in the 6th movie); or the way Dracula’s shadow moves outside of what his actual ‘reflective’ shadow should be. Doing what Dracula would actually like to be doing to Harker. (I always laugh at that scene.) I also think description and setting is probably best done during the second draft, after you’re done getting the story on paper because after all, character and plot are the A-list; and setting and description is more in the B- and C-list range. (You know, you gotta deal with the divas first before you return for the ones who help make the whole thing hold together cohesively. You can’t have A-list characters and plot in a white room. It doesn’t work.)
I agree with some articles that say less is more (mainly because when it comes to writing description, I definitely am a less is more.) However, I’ve read some books where description is definitely that writer’s forte and I wouldn’t have them change a word. I’ve also read authors, like me, who are minimalists and you see the story just as clearly as you do Harry Potter’s world. Both ways work—just don’t forget about it.
So how do you deal with description and setting? What tips and tricks work for you? What movies have you admired for their use of setting/description? Is anyone else looking forward to The Wolfman and not Valentine’s Day like I am? Who's hoping Jeff Bridges finally gets an Oscar?
Characterization and Plot are frequently featured like A-list celebrities, while things like Voice, Theme, and Setting often get shunted with Kathy Griffith to the D-list. Tragic, because these very writing techniques are the Jeff Bridges of the writing world. We all know they were absolutely essential to the overall product, but no one remembers to acknowledge them in their Oscar speech. Or give them their own Oscar.
Consider Dracula. A brilliant character, but nothing without the setting he was drawn in. The story wouldn’t work if he were in a setting like modern day California, with all its sunny weather and “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” people. His whole inner-makeup would dissolve like his face in the sun. He needs weather as moody and dramatic as he is, to mirror his moody and dramatic nature. We’re constantly reminded to write bigger, and using setting to the best advantage in our writing is one of the simple ways to show a Bigger Story. (Simple, but not easy.)
And the setting is much more than mere location. The when of the setting is extremely important. Timing is everything. The new movie, The Wolfman, takes place in Victorian England. What better time setting could you have given such a tale? It’s the perfect blend of science and superstition, of the modern and the old. We clearly see the progressive methods of solving crime using Scotland Yard detective work as well as new medical techniques and studies, but at the same time, the threat itself, a wolfman, is a realm of the old world. Not only are we experiencing the hero’s conflict with becoming a monster, but also the conflict of science versus magic (curse). It makes for a much dramatic telling of the story than say Teen Wolf. Which was quite a classic for me growing up, but is pretty much what would happen if we discovered a wolfman now, right? We—in theory—would be accepting of something that was different from us and wouldn’t try to trap it for the discovery of science. We’d bring it in the house and enroll it in high school.
I like to watch movies (obviously, since most of my blogs involve movies), but more than for the story. I like to watch what was included in a screen shot because I know, like scenes in a book, everything is there for a reason. And you can’t fit everything into a screen shot either. You have to focus on what’s most important, especially to the character. What shows character/story the most?
For example, I watched Adventureland and picked out all the very 80s things in the “description.” There were the girls who had their hair styled in that Gilled Lizard sort of fashion (very popular) and had their t-shirt collars ripped out and the bottom tied into a knot so we could see their midriff. Blue eyeshadow. Madonna-esque fashion accessories. All the cars the boys drove were Gremlins or those monster cars that their grandparents would drive. Cassette tapes were predominant; one boy bragged about his CD player that he paid a ton of money for. (In fact, the only thing not very setting authentic was Kristen Stewart, who not only pranced about in low-rise jeans, but whose hair looked exactly like it does from Twilight.)
The best description and setting (in my opinion) is active within the story, the little drops here and there that are explicit to the character themselves. Like the lemondrops on Dumbledore’s desk (you see them in the 6th movie); or the way Dracula’s shadow moves outside of what his actual ‘reflective’ shadow should be. Doing what Dracula would actually like to be doing to Harker. (I always laugh at that scene.) I also think description and setting is probably best done during the second draft, after you’re done getting the story on paper because after all, character and plot are the A-list; and setting and description is more in the B- and C-list range. (You know, you gotta deal with the divas first before you return for the ones who help make the whole thing hold together cohesively. You can’t have A-list characters and plot in a white room. It doesn’t work.)
I agree with some articles that say less is more (mainly because when it comes to writing description, I definitely am a less is more.) However, I’ve read some books where description is definitely that writer’s forte and I wouldn’t have them change a word. I’ve also read authors, like me, who are minimalists and you see the story just as clearly as you do Harry Potter’s world. Both ways work—just don’t forget about it.
So how do you deal with description and setting? What tips and tricks work for you? What movies have you admired for their use of setting/description? Is anyone else looking forward to The Wolfman and not Valentine’s Day like I am? Who's hoping Jeff Bridges finally gets an Oscar?
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65 comments:
I'm looking forward to both movies. Always a big fan of wolfman movies, and the cast for VD looks fun.
I think with movies the D-listers, as you call them, are the base for the movie. You watch, you listen, and behind everything, is the setting, the stuff that you may not really notice on the first viewing. (Like when writing the first draft.)
Same thing with the theme music. You don't really hear it, but it supports everything. I'm not sure where the theme music fits in with writing...other than an deep level thrum that hopefully weaves through the narrative.
I'm not great with describing my settings, but I look to add bits and pieces on read throughs. First edits, hopefully. I like to do it with colors and scent.
I'll admit when doesn't often play into what I do, because I tap dance all around time in my stuff.
I'm definitely not an over describer. Mostly because I know I tend to skim that stuff when I read. So, anytime I start to feel like I'm getting dragged down in my own mire, I try to stop and get on with the action or dialogue.
That said, I'm not going to say description isn't important. I think it's how it's done. Description throughout--not in big chunks--seems to work best. And obviously fresh description is the best of all.
That all sounds easier than it is, though, of course.
I'm starting to think I'm only writing 10% of this story in the first draft and the revisions could take me years. There's so much to add, the layering and setting, descriptions and deepening the POV. It's getting rather daunting.
I'd say the D-List stuff is what makes the book more than just the telling of a story, it makes the book an experience for the reader. Puts them into the world, takes them on a journey, opens their eyes. The A-List stuff then has more power to yank on their emotions. Can't accomplish it all without all the players.
And I'd bet a lot of money Bridges gets that Oscar.
2nd: I don't know where the score fits in with writing, but I so wish it existed. Esp when it comes to the time when the hero and heroine kiss. Always my favorite part of the movie. The music always crescendos. *LOL*
Color and scents are very good things to tap into. (I like scents. *LOL*)
Marn, my fellow minimalist! *LOL* It's all easier said than done. *LOL* I know it when I see it though. Like Lisa Kleypas and her rabbit stuff--and not to mention what she did in Sugar Daddy and the pit bulls. *LOL* The vivid description in Sugar Daddy was brilliant. It's like the description is tied to the voice of the character, what they notice, how they view the world...which can sometimes be difficult to get across.
I try to layer in description and setting as I write. I think I do a pretty good job-my critique partners tell me that they can "see" my story.
It's something I like to read, as long as it's not an info dump. It definitely needs to be woven in.
Di
Ter - don't be discouraged. It always feels like it's too daunting at the beginning, I think. At least for me. Trust me.
Crap, I meant to put this line at the beginning of that comment.
It’s like the description is tied to the voice of the character, what they notice, how they view the world…
THAT'S how deep POV has been described.
This is pretty much how Deep POV has been described in this ecourse I'm taking. Though with Sugar Daddy, that was first person and that makes it a bit easier. I'm trying to remember to think about what the POV character would notice and what they wouldn't. The hard part for me is, I'm not a naturally observant person. Makes description much harder.
I’d say the D-List stuff is what makes the book more than just the telling of a story, it makes the book an experience for the reader.
I would agree with this.
I just think description, done well (or done at all), improves the story and experience, so you can lose yourself in the telling. The Golden Rule of Writing is don't bore your reader.
Clearly you can bore them with too much detail, which we want to avoid; but not having enough detail can also have an unwanted effect. *LOL*
I hope Bridges does get his Oscar.
I can't think of Jeff Bridges without thinking of "the Dude" and "the rug really tied the room together." I hated that movie with a passion the first few times I watched it. Then it grew on me. It might be the psycho John Goodman plays and how obsessed he is with the Sabbath and bowling. Or just all the very weird and crazy shit that happens. The Dude totally deserves an Oscar.
I wrote all that out and had completely forgotten what the question of the day was. Had to run up and look. So description and setting. Well... I like to use description and I love setting. It might be the only two things I'm good at (or at least I like to think so). Like this weekend I was writing and (cracking up because I remember the comment Hal had last week about one of her friend's reading her fight scene and saying it would never happen that way, therefore, I know this particular fight scene is ridiculous, but in theory it's good in my head)Kiki is getting her ass handed to her only because she wants to catch them off guard so she can make a run for it. I can even here the convo when she makes it back to the office. Tory: "You look like shit."
Kiki: "Gee, see if I ever put effort into how I look ever again." *eyeroll*
Thanks, Marn. I keep reminding myself at least during revisions, I have something on the page to work with. LOL! That's an improvement over trying to fill a blank page, right? (Lie if you have to.)
I try to layer in description and setting as I write. I think I do a pretty good job-my critique partners tell me that they can “see” my story.
That's great, Di!! I love getting comments like that! (I sometimes get comments that my story feels like a movie that they see. That's always fun.)
I agree that description works best as woven into the story and not as "info dumps". I think it's how we see what is important to the character, to see what the character sees--since an average person isn't likely to recount the countryside or city they live in (and have lived all their lives) because it's not new to them. It has to be something important to them within that setting or something new...or if the character is seeing something that they see everyday, it's likely they'll be viewing it with a jaded disposition. Well, unless you have a very perky character...but even my very perky student worker doesn't talk about what she saw on the way to work.
I’m not a naturally observant person.
Neither am I. The running joke about me in high school among my friends is that Pam made it happen; Stacy saw it happen; and I wondered "what happened?"
I'm sure you'll have description and stuff in your first draft too. You'll have far more than 10% on the first go through. It's just that we spend a lot of time talking about alpha and beta heroes or plot...and not as much about the other aspects of writing. And usually the stuff I admire in books I'm reading is the description...
Ter - Yes. Having something is better than a blank page. I promise. :)
Sin, I had to google the rug comment because I thought you were smoking crack again. And as I read the synopsis for the movie, I really have to wonder, "HOW did this movie ever get made?" Not that Jeff Bridges wasn't awesome in it, I'm sure.
Your description rocks--but you do awesome deep POV (since you usually write first person)--and I think that helps. But I'm a very method actor sort of writer. I think the deeper into your character as you write him/her, the more naturally description fills out your scenes and is true to what that character would notice.
Still totally didn't answer the description and setting. I got sidetracked.
Description is just explaining how your character sees the world. The setting is the place you drop that character into. You wouldn't want to drop a sarcastic cynical character into an ultra romantic mushy wedding scene. Just like you wouldn't want to drop a weeper into a scene with a road kill ferret. Unless it was a part of the plot to change the character, it's not going to feel authentic.
It's like when I try to guide people into writing first person. First person is about description. Describe the world through your eyes.
The light popped on from my alarm clock and I slammed my hand down over the snooze. It was still dark outside, shades drawn over the windows and the furnace ran quietly warming the room. I slid my feet over the edge of the bed and slipped my house slippers on. My pink fuzzy robe was next and I shuffled down the hall to the kitchen to start the kettle. I needed a lot of caffeine and fast.
Sin. When you do stuff like that, it sounds so easy.
:)
It was easy cause it was my morning. LOL
I totally agree that setting and description are important--but I totally suck at both *g*
Here's where I actually tried to make the setting of an airport arrivals area actually build characterization. Not sure if it gets even close to working:
Since everything I owned fit into the shopping bag I’d looped around my wrist, we didn’t have to wait for the luggage carasoul. Luken trotted me through bright, clean terminal hallways, bustling full of people, and out into the pale morning sun and cool breeze. Taxis and busses crept past pedestrians loading luggue into shuttle vans, while families reunited next to the open boot of their cars.
Luken plunged through all of it with the confidence of man who knew exactly where he was going. I was too tired to do anything but follow. Forty-eight hours ago I’d been sitting on my bunk in my cell, prepared to count down another seventeen years worth of days.
And now . . .
A little girl with dark hair and liquid brown eyes escaped her mother, ran directly into my leg, and landed on her bottom on the sidewalk. Her exhausted mother rolled her eyes and gave me a conspiratorial smile. “Kids. Anna, what do you say to the nice lady?”
The girl scrambled to her feet, said, “excuse me,” and raced off in the other direction. Mom groaned and ran after her, like it was all perfectly normal. I stood rooted to the sidewalk. People swarmed and jostled around me, chattering on cell phones in English and Spanish and languages I couldn’t place; the wheels of someone’s suitcase bumped against my foot and rolled over my toes.
I was invisible. Without the prison jumpsuit and serial number, I was once again human.
Luken paused a few feet away, impatient. “Problem?”
“No.” I stepped off the curb, into the crosswalk, and followed Luken toward the short-term parking.
I'd be happy to see Jeff Bridges win an Oscar, but I'd also be happy to see George Clooney, Colin Firth, or Morgan Freeman win. Best Actor is a strong category this year.
Place is important to me, so I spend a lot of time working on giving a clear sense of place without overwhelming the reader with detail. My problem is the reverse of Terri's. I end up cutting and cutting and cutting description. What I aim for--and rarely achieve--is the kind of thing Loretta Chase does so well in her historicals--or Marsha Moyer in her Lucy Hatch books: a single detail that evokes the place as vividly as a painting. I read an ARC last week for a book that will be released in April that did this sort of thing beautifully. The protagonist arrives at an old-fashioned gas station, and she sees the rounded gas tanks and notes that the owner looks like the Texaco man but without the smile. These details may not mean much to you younguns, but for me, and I'm guessing for the author's target audience, they were sufficient to create the whole picture.
Janga - what a great example! Just those two details put a whole image of a rural, old-fashioned gas station in my head, not to mention the whole nostalgic emotion. So *this* is the goal!
I was invisible. Without the prison jumpsuit and serial number, I was once again human.
Yeah, I think you nailed it.
I'm amused that the terminals are bright and clean to her. (I mean, there are always lots of windows and light, but the terminals I go through, look like some Frat parties were hosted there. I think the people are so busy scanning people to make sure they're not going to blow up a plane that they can't keep up with the litterbugs. Or the overflowing trash cans. Then again I travel later in the day...after lunch...so that probably explains the state of the trash. Early in the morning, it might still have that new terminal glow about it.)
Then again, since she's a former inmate, a prison isn't light, airy, or probably particularly "clean looking", even scrubbed. So I can see why the terminal would be clean to her. *LOL*
The protagonist arrives at an old-fashioned gas station, and she sees the rounded gas tanks and notes that the owner looks like the Texaco man but without the smile.
OMG! That's a great image! What book is this coming out in April?
Janga, I think we wish we had your problems with description. *LOL*
And it never hurts to have George win another award... :)
hit submit too soon. I was going to say those are all extra little details to really flesh out the scene and drop readers there. Thanks!
wow, hellie, I didn't even think of all that! But you're totally right. They landed at like 6am, on a red-eye flight, so the terminals would be clean and have that deserted feeling. But the ground transportation area outside would still be crowded and exhaust-filled.
I love the image where people are practically running over her to get inside to get their flight. I like the image that she's amazed that she's invisible...but I like the thought that she spends a lot of time being invisible. I imagine she was pretty invisible in jail too. It's part of her cover to blend in.
Exactly! She's trying to face that problem. She hated jail, and wanted out, but at the same time, there's a security and anonymity to being in jail. It's a buffer between her and the world. She's lost that buffer, and on the one hand, it makes her human and invisible (normal, even), but on the other hand, it makes her vulnerable.
Hellie, the book is The Goddess of Fried Okra by Jean Brashear. I fell in love with the title at first mention. I'll be reviewing it at Just Janga closer to the release date. It's an extraordinary book with great eccentrics and a genuine Southern lit feel. I'm excited about it.
Here are a few ( I could go on forevvvver) movies I feel have made great use of setting/description. For me , the setting of these movies is a vital character in the film.
Apocolypse Now
Braveheart
Casablanca
Dances With wolves
Doctor Zhivago The Grapes of Wrath
Gladiator
The Godfather
Gone With the Wind
Kingdom of Heaven
Lawrence of Arabia
Loneliness of the Long Distant Runner
The Lord of the Rings Trilogy
Psycho
Schindler’s List
Slumdog Millionaire
Silence of the Lambs
A Walk in the Clouds
Many of them could be classified as epics. The cinematography is quite sumptuous. Interestingly enough, the black & white films like Psycho and The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner are not. their cinematography stle is less epic, and more minimalist. I feel that this minimalist approach makes “the story” more powerful. Steven Spielberg’s Schindler’s List is also in black and white. Watch the film and ask yourself … would this film be as powerful in color? IMO… no.
A lesson perhaps that less actually adds more to the story?
Use description and setting as a tool to focus the viewer’s attention … or in your case the reader’s. Direct, but don’t distract from the story.
Janga, that is an awesome title! And not just because I love fried okra! :) I can't wait to read more about it and read it myself! I love Southern lit.
Oops, I gave you the link to the kid. Not the one who ran around with Wallace. *sighs* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Moray
Sorry about that.
Jules, I agree with many of your selections! (Some I haven't seen so can't say, "Yeah!"; and Dr. Zhivago, well, I never want to see that one again. That might be on the basis of story though rather than setting. *LOL* What is it with the Russians abhorring a happy ending?)
Braveheart is one of my favorite films--though I did my college paper on it and the inaccuracies are legion. *LOL* Like they didn't wear kilts during that period...and they didn't wear the blue war paint. And I think Bruce's father was not the one with leprosy, but his grandfather. Stuff like that. Oh, and they never mention Wallace had a partner in his wars--Andrew Murray. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Andrew_Murray. (Not that Wikipedia is the best source...but bear with me.) The guy who wrote the screenplay--Randall Wallace--is a descendant of William Wallace and you can see why he'd want to keep the story about him and not his friend.
I just finished A Reliable Wife and the setting, a harsh Wisconsin winter... A character all by itself. I often find it amazing how authors and screenwriters do this. Like in Smila's Sense of Snow, or Snow Falling on Cedars... And so often, when I've seen it or read it...it's snow.
Which is a fascinating thing since I don't know snow.
Hal - Wonderful scene and you can totally get at what is going on for her. And the guy pushing through with confidence...yes, always lead with the penis... ;)
I thought an interesting bit of detail SEP provided in What I Did For Love was that Malibu houses are really close together so that the public can't get to the beach from their driveway, so to speak. At least that's how she described it (and I understood it). It was really cool. Otherwise, there wasn't a lot of description of LA itself or the places they went to--generalized--but I could still easily imagine it. She spent a lot of time describing the house (the hero's). It sounded like Martha Stewart Living porn.
I started reading about the Andrew guy and lost about a half hour of my day. So interesting.
Janga - That title made me think instantly of Fried Green Tomatoes. (Is that right with the "e"?) Is it similar?
I've never watched Dr. Zhivago. So I shouldn't bother? We're probably going to see Valentine's Day, since kiddo is in love with Lautner. I'm hoping the rest of it is worth sitting through. Don't plan to see the Wolfman. Not my kind of thing. I'm a chicken shit. :)
Jessica Biel was on Leno the other night, showing her part--a workaholic who hates Valentine's Day and throws a I Hate Valentine's Day party--and it looked funny. (I'll see it; I'm just not in a very Valentiney mood.) I'm sure you'll enjoy it--for far more than Jacob. McSteamy and the Hangover guy are in it...and basically it's a film of "Who isn't in this movie?", ripping on Valentine's Day. What's not to enjoy?
Hel - Yeah, the stuggle for beach access is legendary in California. More for SoCal than North. But the houses lined up with no room between them...very accurate.
The public rights of way are few and far between.
But it's a great bit of setting detail that say a lot about SoCal and what is considered a have that the have nots covet.
The stuff in A Reliable Wife about snowbound winters and how it twists the life of people at the turn of the century was intense. How they went mad and killed themselves and each other played a real role in this book.
I was really impressed at his ability to make it so real without shoving my face in it. It was, instead, understatedly purvasive. Like a good soundtrack! This book would make a very good movie.
Hel – Yeah, the stuggle for beach access is legendary in California. More for SoCal than North. But the houses lined up with no room between them…very accurate.
The public rights of way are few and far between.
But it’s a great bit of setting detail that say a lot about SoCal and what is considered a have that the have nots covet.
It wasn't that much detail. Couple sentences, a paragraph, but it really stuck out and I was trying to remember that from my trip to SoCal. (I did not remember. We clearly went to public access beaches.) But I think inserting that detail--and by the way it was written, I thought, "Man, that must be true!" *LOL*--it was just enough to really make it real.
But I guess anything can be said in your setting/description so long as it's brief and said with authority. *LOL* Though there was something I read about Nicholas Sparks' Nights of Rodanthe where he had wild ponies in an area around the Outer Banks where they are NOT at...and people from that area were all up his butt about it. (I'm going to guess he did not have a blurb at the beginning or the end of his book that says, "Oops, I know the ponies aren't there, but it worked for the story" to save him. That blurb can save a lot of pissy fan letters.)
The stuff in A Reliable Wife sounds a bit like the homesteading in Kansas, where the women would keep the farm when the menfolk went to town (70+ miles away)--and they'd go absolutely stircrazy from being alone on the prairie. I imagine the circumstances were like that, but with winter, unable to get out and see people. Socialize.
As Jennifer Crusie said on her website, life is more than just about surviving.
I'll have to google your book. Sounds interesting, but I'm sure I'll need a good rom-com afterwards.
Great blog, Hellie!
I absolutely agree that place and time are vital. I also concur with the few that said that it was the one area they sucked. Correction... maybe they all said they just weren't proficient - I suck!
I know that passage in What I Did For Love you're talking about and remember thinking when I read it what a great image she put forth. Especially since I lived out there for a time and didn't realize that was how Malibu was set up. I found a picture of what she was talking about - either on her website or through Google - and it was just as I pictured it from her description.
What is Jeff Bridges up for?
I also agree with the music for movies. I was on a John Wayne kick this past weekend and for some reason I played specific attention to the music played throughout the movies. I've always loved the image of him riding through the west on his horse and realize that the soundtrack to the movies contributed a whole lot to that excitement I always felt.
Jeff Bridges is up for Lead Actor for Crazy Heart. Which I really want to see but will have to wait for the DVD since it's rated R.
The music in westerns plays a huge part in atmospere. Copeland and the epics...writing that western/Americana music that came to really typify the western. Awesome observation, Irish!
Hel - Yup, the author was deliberately pushing the harsh realities of being mired in such bleak winters... Civilization so close, but so far away. If I remember, the book opens in 1906... So close to modern life, yet...centuries apart.
It's an awesome book.
I played specific attention Should have been paid specific attention... Obviously I didn't pay as specific attention to my spelling. LOL
S'OK, I heard what you said, not what you wrote!
Irish, you're not allowed to say you suck. Okay, maybe you're allowed but we're all going to protest. We're sure you write just fine and your ability to evoke an image or a feeling is just as good as anyone else, including SEP.
I should talk to you about the book. I laughed hysterically at that book. It's one of my favorite contemporaries I've read in a long long time. I googled to see what she'll be putting out next. I'd love another Hollywood book.
Musical scores are huge. I don't think people always realize how important they are to the story telling. As 2nd said before, it's very much part of the setting and description; it tells you exactly what you should be feeling here, which is what good setting and description does in books. The right type of spooky description about a house or a cellar and we know something dreadful is about to occur.
A bit of description of wildly beating heart, tingling, et al, and we're all set up to expect a kiss. Or more.
I think it's tricky to imbue the soundtrack experience in a book you're writing. You have to be so subtle! So sneaky, almost.
You almost have to set the reader up with such a state of expectation, with words, that if they don't get that sneaky music feeling, or that crescendo feeling...they feel cheated.
A lot of it is in the heartbeat. The heartbeat you give your book, that...hopefully...catches the reader's heartbeat. When the two hearts beat as one, you succeeded!
I LOVED What I Did For Love. When it came out everyone was so busy comparing it to Brangelina that they didn't take it on its own merits. I thought it was great. I absolutely loved Bram even though he's such a lying scoundrel. I loved his self deprecating, facetious wit and the way he so easily told everyone what they expected to hear instead of the truth about himself. I even loved Georgie. She wasn't TSTL just cautious, with good reason, but in the end trusted herself.
I love bent Bram gets that Georgie is a "fucking team player" all the time. *LOL* I think it was very well-played; and yes, I saw the Bragelina comparison easily (esp with Lance and Jade--what a name--wanting to go to Thailand to help people. *LOL*) And the whole scene where Lance & Jade come by the house to "apologize" and they're locked up together for SARS. *LOL* OMG. What a nightmare. Honestly.
I wasn't sure I wanted to forgive Bram for the bit on the boat and Georgie's virginity, but Bram had his merits. And I laughed hysterically at the porn shop scene. "You have obvious trust issues." Gee, really?
Yes, subtly is a hard thing for me to grasp, let alone imbue it in my writing.
I don't know if they feel "cheated" but I think they feel less engaged in the story. The music score engages me more in the story; and well done description, tone, setting engages as much as great characters (actors) and plot. It's the whole dining experience, not just the meat and potatoes or the dessert.
I think the trick with soundtracks in movies, and the beauty of them, is if they are right, then you don't even notice them. The only way you'd notice is if the sound suddenly went away. They are integral and enhance, without being obvious.
I've found when I listen to a soundtrack, instrumental ones, when out in public, it makes life feel like I'm watching a movie. Listened to one while waiting in the airport once and it gave me the strangest feeling. Like life was a giant screen and suddenly what everyone was doing had a meaning.
Which probably makes me sound crazy, but it was just a funny feeling. (That I obviously can't describe since, you know, I'm not good at description.)
And the mention of western soundtracks keeps making hear that opening to what I think is an old Clint film. The one that goes something like "oley oley ooooooooooooo" and you picture tumbleweeds blowing across the deserted street.
Hey, a good soundtrack will do that! Part of it's job is to suggest more is going on than what you are seeing!
Which may be what the background setting, etc. is all about also.
Spaghetti westerns! Hee, hee! I was thinking more the grand John Ford epics...
Listened to one while waiting in the airport once and it gave me the strangest feeling. Like life was a giant screen and suddenly what everyone was doing had a meaning.
This makes me laugh.
Suddenly makes sense for all those musicals where the pig farmer bursts into song and dances on the wooden fence. Everything you do has meaning when you put it to music.
I'm sure this all ties somehow to our primitive selves.
Which may be what the background setting, etc. is all about also.
I think so. And what Bo'sun said: that it's supposed to be in the background, you're not supposed to notice it IF it's doing its job. You should only notice if it's clunky or if it's absent.
The difference with movies and books is that for movies, you have experts in movie soundtracks that work to make it perfect. Grant it, the director puts it together, but there's more collaboration and delegation.
For us as writers, it's all on us.
Yeah, but we're writers...we're up for it! LOL!
So you're playing "it takes a village to raise a movie"--gotcha.
In that case, I'll just blame my CP if my description isn't all it can be. *LOL*
Yeah, it also takes a village to ruin a movie! I think it's much more a result of good organization and good collaboration. Lots of room for blame. We only get to blame ourselves!
Which reminds me, have you guys seen the "It takes lots of calls to make a movie, but only one to ruin it" commercials in the theaters to turn off your cell phone? The one where they chick demands they put pants on the hedgehog cracks me up. LOL!
Sorry, slightly off topic.
But a prime example! Yeah, but the animators leave the hedgehog's fly open! Brilliant!
For a wonderfully written musical moment might I recommend The Waltz Scene in Mary Balogh’s Simply Unforgettable. The scene begins at the end of chapter 4, page 69 (no comment),with Lucious Marshall saying “Dazzle me” to Frances Allard. He goes on to convince her to waltz with him in an empty assembly room while she provides the music … by humming.
Ah, any waltz scene is a good scene for me...
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