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Thursday, January 28, 2010
Not So Much Maass Information
Blame it on the Bo’sun, if this blog holds together better than mine normally tend to. I was really floundering on this and have come to the conclusion…I take bad notes. So, trying to pull enough together to make sense and not meander about… I give you 3 items of interest from the Donald Maas workshop I attended last Saturday.
I’m going to start with the third point, because I like working backwards. It amazed, what I heard during breaks and at the end of the day. “Well, guess I’ll just scrap what I have and start over!”
No kidding?
And I thought, “What? No bloody way!” My inner censor held me back from standing up and staring then all down, “Are you all mad? He’s hasn’t said anything that isn’t fixable!”
I do have some instincts toward self preservation. And these were my chapter mates and I need to continue meeting with them once a month.
Now, I am not so egotistical to assume nothing he said pertains to me and my manuscripts. Quite the contrary! Some wonderful ideas for adding verve and excitement and sharpening the works… Lots of great ideas.
But this was an important point for me…I’m not writing perfect, but I don’t believe in pillage and burn. I mean, how can I continue to build a mutually satisfactory relationship with any manuscript if I just pillage and burn it?
He spoke of revisions. He spoke of receiving a rejection and resubmitting according the suggestions made. He didn’t say…burn it. So, last thing I walked away with? Don’t burn it.
Secondly, protagonist! I discovered that I write great protagonist. Oh, boy, sounds egotistical again, don’t it? No, not that way! But Donald said that protagonists tend fit into two types. Those that are born great and those that have greatness thrust upon them. Say…the Navy Seal compared to the stock clerk. And he emphasized with both of these types…make the reader connect with them in the first five pages.
(I hate the first 5 pages stuff. I know, it’s realistic. But I struggle within the confines of reality all the time.)
But I listened and understand the gist. Those that are great need to be made fallible so the reader can relate. Those that aren’t great naturally…well, my notes suck here, something about giving them attributes to admire and enable to them rise to the greatness they are headed for. I create protagonists that are already great. (Not in an egotistical way, remember, but in a already a warrior sort or thing… Oh, never mind, I’m getting myself into trouble enough.)
The gist of it? Examine where your protagonist fits into this world and make sure you bring them into the world. Not so great that no one can relate and not so…uh…not-great so that there is no suspension of disbelief when they end up doing great things. (Did I use a double negative there?) Suspension of disbelief? Yeah, that might be better.
Firstly, oh…I loved this one! Special Characters! This topic fascinated me. He spoke of how to use this tool to address a need for action, for information, for climax wrap up. Special characters, the larger than life presence that hovers over the action, but often isn’t ever introduced. The general in charge of the troops, the scientist, the head of the school board. The one we writers use as an off screen device.
Donald recommends bringing them on screen and let them relay information, spur action, add color.
I have the Guardians in my current WIP. They know why the world changed, they make rules, but for the most part, they are off screen and they don’t interfere. Until one of them pops up near the end and because he’s eccentric and disagrees with some of the original Guardian doctrine, he drops bits of information that changes everything for the H/H. But he does it in almost an accidental way.
I love it, I can use him more. Not just at the end. It’s going to be fun to incorporate him just a bit more. Just a bit….mostly at the end, but I can do some gentle foreshadowing using this character.
Delish!
There was more, of course. At one point I wanted to thrust my fist in the air and shout out “YES!” Because he spoke of how telling can be as important as showing. How an objective POV can be useful to make the intangible dynamic.
Donald is my hero.
Details? Give me more time to reflect and I hope I can give you more. And maybe I’ll read the book…find the specifics that struck me as wonderful. He did use an example of a paragraph from an author he represents. Daniel Depp. Yup, related to our favorite pirate actor. Wrote a mystery of sorts set in Hollywood. Great passage he read. (Gotta look for this book!)
The last question he addressed was great. Asked how he recommended an author approach revision, he replied that a linear approach was fine and good, but he suggested a more scattered and random approach. Work out of order. A sort of shuffle things around and grab a scene, a bit of dialog, some action…read it, apply the methods he suggested…grab another. From anywhere.
This appeals to the chaos imp that lives inside me and likes to play.
So, to reiterate…
3) Don’t burn. (Sin, this is for you. Stop the bonfires. Now.)
2) Great or greatness thrust upon them? Either way, still need a way to connect to the reader, for the reader to believe this could be them…
1) Special Characters are to be used.
.5) Edit out of order
Now, lets see how you might find some of this useful with your current WIP… (And keep tuned in…one last point he made I am writing up as an entire blog on all its own. One I know Hel is going to take great delight in…)
I’m up at me Mum’s and time will be tight today. Bear with me as I pop in and out…and play nice! The bar is open!
I’m going to start with the third point, because I like working backwards. It amazed, what I heard during breaks and at the end of the day. “Well, guess I’ll just scrap what I have and start over!”
No kidding?
And I thought, “What? No bloody way!” My inner censor held me back from standing up and staring then all down, “Are you all mad? He’s hasn’t said anything that isn’t fixable!”
I do have some instincts toward self preservation. And these were my chapter mates and I need to continue meeting with them once a month.
Now, I am not so egotistical to assume nothing he said pertains to me and my manuscripts. Quite the contrary! Some wonderful ideas for adding verve and excitement and sharpening the works… Lots of great ideas.
But this was an important point for me…I’m not writing perfect, but I don’t believe in pillage and burn. I mean, how can I continue to build a mutually satisfactory relationship with any manuscript if I just pillage and burn it?
He spoke of revisions. He spoke of receiving a rejection and resubmitting according the suggestions made. He didn’t say…burn it. So, last thing I walked away with? Don’t burn it.
Secondly, protagonist! I discovered that I write great protagonist. Oh, boy, sounds egotistical again, don’t it? No, not that way! But Donald said that protagonists tend fit into two types. Those that are born great and those that have greatness thrust upon them. Say…the Navy Seal compared to the stock clerk. And he emphasized with both of these types…make the reader connect with them in the first five pages.
(I hate the first 5 pages stuff. I know, it’s realistic. But I struggle within the confines of reality all the time.)
But I listened and understand the gist. Those that are great need to be made fallible so the reader can relate. Those that aren’t great naturally…well, my notes suck here, something about giving them attributes to admire and enable to them rise to the greatness they are headed for. I create protagonists that are already great. (Not in an egotistical way, remember, but in a already a warrior sort or thing… Oh, never mind, I’m getting myself into trouble enough.)
The gist of it? Examine where your protagonist fits into this world and make sure you bring them into the world. Not so great that no one can relate and not so…uh…not-great so that there is no suspension of disbelief when they end up doing great things. (Did I use a double negative there?) Suspension of disbelief? Yeah, that might be better.
Firstly, oh…I loved this one! Special Characters! This topic fascinated me. He spoke of how to use this tool to address a need for action, for information, for climax wrap up. Special characters, the larger than life presence that hovers over the action, but often isn’t ever introduced. The general in charge of the troops, the scientist, the head of the school board. The one we writers use as an off screen device.
Donald recommends bringing them on screen and let them relay information, spur action, add color.
I have the Guardians in my current WIP. They know why the world changed, they make rules, but for the most part, they are off screen and they don’t interfere. Until one of them pops up near the end and because he’s eccentric and disagrees with some of the original Guardian doctrine, he drops bits of information that changes everything for the H/H. But he does it in almost an accidental way.
I love it, I can use him more. Not just at the end. It’s going to be fun to incorporate him just a bit more. Just a bit….mostly at the end, but I can do some gentle foreshadowing using this character.
Delish!
There was more, of course. At one point I wanted to thrust my fist in the air and shout out “YES!” Because he spoke of how telling can be as important as showing. How an objective POV can be useful to make the intangible dynamic.
Donald is my hero.
Details? Give me more time to reflect and I hope I can give you more. And maybe I’ll read the book…find the specifics that struck me as wonderful. He did use an example of a paragraph from an author he represents. Daniel Depp. Yup, related to our favorite pirate actor. Wrote a mystery of sorts set in Hollywood. Great passage he read. (Gotta look for this book!)
The last question he addressed was great. Asked how he recommended an author approach revision, he replied that a linear approach was fine and good, but he suggested a more scattered and random approach. Work out of order. A sort of shuffle things around and grab a scene, a bit of dialog, some action…read it, apply the methods he suggested…grab another. From anywhere.
This appeals to the chaos imp that lives inside me and likes to play.
So, to reiterate…
3) Don’t burn. (Sin, this is for you. Stop the bonfires. Now.)
2) Great or greatness thrust upon them? Either way, still need a way to connect to the reader, for the reader to believe this could be them…
1) Special Characters are to be used.
.5) Edit out of order
Now, lets see how you might find some of this useful with your current WIP… (And keep tuned in…one last point he made I am writing up as an entire blog on all its own. One I know Hel is going to take great delight in…)
I’m up at me Mum’s and time will be tight today. Bear with me as I pop in and out…and play nice! The bar is open!
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26 comments:
Mr. Maass' book is sitting in my living and I've only glanced at parts of it. I really need to dig into this thing. All great ideas, and didn't make me want to burn anything. Progress!
I'm not sure about the editing out of order thing. Think I'd lose too many threads and would never be able to make it cohesive. But since revisions will take several passes, I could see trying this for one of the later rounds.
I'm with Ter; I couldn't edit out of order. I need to make sure I keep track of all my story lines and all my symbols.
I think these are great ideas. I really like the protagonist idea, about greatness. :) Thanks for the info Chance!
Lots of information, Chance! Thanks for sharing. :) I think the "first five pages" stuff is where I have the most difficulty. I probably spend most of my time changing the beginning. It's like a "high pressure zone."
Are there levels of greatness? My heroine is just a school teacher put in charge of a fight for new books. And the hero is more thrust OUT of greatness as the book opens right after a career-ending injury throws him out of baseball.
Thanks for sharing this great info! I LOVE LOVE LOVE Donald Maass' "Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook". It made me analyze a manuscript in a different way, and really made it better. (One example was to possibly combine two secondary characters that are essentially serving the same function -- I did, and came up with some awesome plot ideas as a result.)
I also got to see him in a one-hour seminar last spring, and his suggestions are usually very simple, yet very profound -- it gives you several "aha" moments on how to fix something. I totally agree on the "don't burn" suggestion.
Jealous that you got to have a whole day with him!
Thank God, it's Friday. That's all I have to say.
My characters are generally people who've had "greatness" thrust upon them. Not really. I don't write those kinds of books. Donald is so clearly a boy. Not everything is about a war or blowing something up. But my characters are mostly non-assuming and then have to deal with a lot of crap. I don't like characters who think they know everything, unless they're for comic relief. Clearly I'm not writing a blockbuster though. (Now if I could go to a Barbara Samuels workshop...)
I agree about the first five pages. Hell, I've put back books where the first line or paragraph didn't grab me (and the back blurb premise wasn't enough to make me read further.) And I know how I like my opening hooks to start. I don't like long paragraphs of description; and I don't like starting with a bit of dialogue (because it seems hackneyed so much of the time--sometimes not, it depends). I like the one sentence "paragraph" that sounds ironic or dark or whatever. One of those Julie Garwood sorts of hooks.
I understand there are people who like descriptive paragraph starts and I assume the books that start out that way are for them.
I rather like the editing out of order. Mainly because I've tried editing IN ORDER and I was so bored by my writing that it seemed I'd never like anything I ever wrote again. Whereas Donald's suggestion would let me pick out a scene I was actually excited about working on, that I actually saw promise in and working on that, then going back and working on something else. Although, I think setting the work aside for 6 weeks and then reading it all the way through first (before making corrections) would be smarter than editing as you go, chronologically. Just so you can look at the big picture and then figure out what threads need to be straightened out first.
Donald suggested editing out of order after a linear read through...because you see things differently when you isolate them. Considering that I have read of editors who will pick a manuscript up, flip to a random page and read...this enables you to see every scene as the first scene where you have to catch the interest.
When you've been through your MS a dozen times, you stop seeing stuff. I really think the random edit could tighten things up, a lot!
Melissa - I just hate that five page stuff. I really, really, really do. I get it, but I still hate it.
Somewhere, there is an island of lost beginnings, all those lovely bit tossed aside in pursuit of the 'gotcha' openings. Some perfectly good beginnings...
I, personally, don't always want to start a book at some massive bit of action. I like to slide into a book, let it seduce me, slowly. Not the wham-bam-thank-you-ma'ama stuff...
I like bonfires.
I can't fix things until it gets written.
I will put all these on my back burners to simmer until I get to each issue. Only problem is that my reality and others notion of reality are two entirely different things. LOL
Marn, Bos, Hel - Greatness is in the eye of the beholder! Just because he and I used the example of the Navy Seal, doesn't mean it has to be a super hero verses a nerd. Greatness is what you make your hero/heroine. No matter what they do.
I may have muddled it up some. The idea is that your hero is going to do something and it's going to be great. Fall in love, teach school kids, get that job... It's what is great to them, not just to an outside world.
Sure, some protagonist live in a world of being great, being above average. Like the above mentioned Navy Seal...but most of us don't. Whether you build the 6 million dollar man or not...we, the readers, must be able to identify with the greatness. Or the plainless.
The great could be a schoolteacher with an IQ above the rest.
I'm not saying this right, I know it!
And Hel - don't consider the Donald a boy with boy toys... He explained it better than I do!
I'm not a fan of the big commotion in the very start of the book either. My voice just doesn't work well like that. I think that's where I get into hangups at the beginning.
I hope this start with a super dooper bang stuff is a trend that will ease away... Leave room for those of us you prefer the sneakier way of gaining our readers attention...
Sin, I like bonfires too. But you have to stop sacrificing your early efforts to the gods. Those early efforts are more about building a good stock for the soup... You keep throwing out the water because you used one wrong spice and you're never going to finish the meal!
The goal for you is move foward. No more starting over. As painful as it may be, finish...something. Start to finish. And then hide it from yourself. Send it to someone else to hold it secure. Then you can edit. And maybe save it, maybe cut it up and use parts for another creation...but you can't edit ashes.
enables you to see every scene as the first scene where you have to catch the interest.
I love this idea. Not sure I could do it, but makes perfect sense. Great to keep in mind during the editing phase. Also like "Greatness is in the eye of the beholder." Very true. And reassuring.
I don't know, I think you can grab the attention without a big bang. I read an opening once that dropped me into the middle of a bank robbery from the POV of one of the bank clerks. That's the bang opening, off and running.
But then there are openings like the one in BET ME by Crusie. As the reader, we are dropped into the middle of two people breaking up. But it's very civil, except in the internal thoughts of the heroine. You are sucked into the book immediately, and no bang in sight. But it does technically start in the middle of an action.
I hope there is room for both types of openings. As you said, the lighter opening from Crusie...it's action, but it isn't blowing up bridges action. Perhaps that is the key to an opening...something must be happening, but the action doesn't have to be in your face.
The opening from the Depp book that Donald read (don't you just like reading that?) had a real passive opening, but it was so well done...it worked.
I find it encouraging to have an agent of Maass's stature use something like that as an example.
(And I'm no so innocent as to be fully aware that this Depp got his break because of the other Depp...)
That's it, make sure something is *happening* to one or both of your characters in the opening scene. Usually something that shifts the path they've been on. (Which means I need to reconsider my opening scene. After I get the first draft done though.)
I've never heard of this other Depp either, so you're not alone.
Yeah, called Loser's Town...
http://www.amazon.com/Losers-Town-Daniel-Depp/dp/0143171011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264782341&sr=1-1
Amazon gave it a midlist rating. But he's writing about Hollywood, which I imagine he'd know well...
I just find it instersting how trends move...no more starting a book with three chapters of the geography of how an island rises from the ocean, ala Hawaii by Michener!
Maybe.
Yes, I suppose make sure something is happening in the opening scene. And something is happening in EVERY scene. But it's also important to show the ordinary world of the hero in the opening scene as well. The contrast is needed to show how monumental this inciting incident is in the hero's life .
I wonder if it's possible to have a scene where nothing of particular importance is happening... Just wondering... You know, an informative scene, done dynamically... But then again, if you, the writer, is presenting information, then something is happening...
This could get pretty interesting, in a word play sort of fashion...
Knew this would be a very slow blog. More a food for thought blog than a frollic and play blog... Now, I must haste back to my mother's house and see about playing the driver to her Miss Daisy.
I'll return in some hours to see if any further discussion rises!
I'm satisfying my desire for my own house by painting my apartment so I've been out picking up samples. Three colors chosen, three rooms to paint, now to figure out what I need.
There's just a lot of info here to take in. And I'm guessing the middle and southern parts of the country are all either hiding from the crazy weather, or bracing for it. We're supposed to get 6 to 9 inches tomorrow, which would be the first time I've seen snow here since arrived in 2004.
Wow, sorry to hear about the weather alert across the country. We're having a rare day of sunshine...new rain expected day after tomorrow. Not complaining! Rain is needed!
Everyone get those shutters nailed down tight and stash some batteries for those important appliances.
Radios, crew. Radios.
Great blog-very thought provoking.
I read it yesterday morning, and wanted to let it percolate for awhile, and never made it back. *sigh* I love the idea of doing an edit out of order.
Di
Someday, I would love to take a Donald Maass workshop! Sounds like it was really helpful... in the mean time, I'll have to be content with using his workbook at home.
Di R, I'm going to finish my present edit the way I have it set up, linnear. But then I'm gonna try the scatter method he recommended. I'll let the blog know how it goes!
Kate, I enjoyed the workshop a lot and when I win that big lottery prize, I'd love to take one of his week long intensives... I think it would be worth it!
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