Clean Up, Aisle Three!
I’m in revision.
I know. Groan, groan.
Of all the post-writing things, I find revision to be the most intimidating. Synopsis and query writing—daunting, yes. But everything pales behind reading through 300 pages or so of your work—multiple times usually—and trying to figure out if it sucks as bad as you thought.
Here’s my take on revision.
There are four different variations of revisers. I’m going to do this like the Myers-Briggs personlity test, with a couple different dichotomies.
*Disclaimer – this is only my opinion. This is based on no real scientific methodology, only my own general observations. In that vein, these observations are worth what you’re paying for them.
Ahem. So. Let me begin.
The first variable is the DURING writing phase.
During writing, either you’re a Vomit-It-Out (V) or you’re a Revise-As-You-Go (R).
Vomit-It-Out (V) – these writers just write full tilt, no holds barred. They do not pass Go, they don’t collect any money (at least not until publication, of course). The ideology: that if you get it on the page, you’ll at least have something to work with. This is the “we can’t revise a blank page” crowd a la the Nora. Advantage – Lots of forward progress, no pause to angst. Disadvantage – No way to know if material is “quality” or not.
Revise-As-You-Go (R) – these writers can’t move on until what they’ve written is up to their standards. They revise/edit each scene they write, sometimes returning to adjust/revise/edit again. The ideology: it’s hard to keep going if there isn’t a strong foundation. Advantages – Not as much revising later. Disadvantages – Plenty of time to stress over every word.
The second variable is the AFTER writing phase.
After writing, either you’re a Wait-It-Out (W) or you’re a Do-It-Now (D)
Wait-It-Out (W) – these writers step away from a manuscript for a prescribed period of time before starting revisions. The ideology: that time will allow the writer to return to the work with a fresh perspective. And maybe a little distance will give a little emotional distance from every word. Advantages – Maybe a little time will make a writer’s eyes fresh. Disadvantages – Sometimes absence doesn’t make the heart grow fonder. And many writers are eager to get submitting.
Do-It-Now (D) – these writers dive right in to revisions without any honeymoon period after completing their manuscripts. The ideology: that time away might make them forget the things they wanted to fix. Advantages – Done with revisions faster. Disadvantages – No emotional distance from manuscript before making adjustments.
With my first manuscript, I was a VW reviser. I vomited the second half of that manuscript, assuming that I’d come back after I was finished. And lots of people told me that I should wait to revise. So I waited a month. Well, after a month, I started reading it and I realized that I didn’t really love the story anymore. Even though I’d written myself notes, I didn’t find them particularly useful to my revisions and I found that the time away from my story had just distanced me emotionally from it. In a bad way.
Also, as I was vomiting the second half, I told myself that I’d fix what was wrong later. But I didn’t know that I’m not the kind of person who rewrites well, especially at the end. I found the extensive amount of revising/rewriting so daunting, I wasn’t even sure it was worth going through the pain of it.
With this manuscript, I was a RD reviser. I edited each scene as I finished it. And when I felt something was wrong, I stopped and fixed it, including three (four?) adjustments to motivation and two adjustments to two different internal conflicts. And I revised the entire thing—at least what I felt was wrong—right after I finished. I’m guessing as I ask more people to read, I’ll do more rounds of revisions as I go. But this worked a lot better for me.
So, what kind of reviser are you? What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of each of these revising methods (in your experience)? Anyone else adjust their process as they’ve grown?
Books by the Crew
54 comments:
Well, for the most part. I Vomit-It-Out...but! I do tend ta revise mildly as I go. Usually, when I pick up from somethin' I put down, even jus' fer a day, I go back some pages and revise. So, mostly a V, but with a bit a' R. Rrrrrrrr!
I usually Wait-It-Out when it comes ta major re-writes. But I believe that this ain't workin' out fer me...because, like ya, I can lose enthusiasm fer a project. I gots ta find a middle ground on that aspect.
We needs ta invent a middle place fer this one, Marnee. The Short Honeymoon?
I know the main problem I see wit' those who Revise-As-You-Go? Their forward momentum can slow ta the point a' stoppin'. They focus on what be wrong and it stops 'em dead, despair settles in... The only way outta that is ta kick yer ass and stumble forward.
Right now, I might need a good kick in me ass.
I'm an RD kinda gal!
This is a great blog, Marnee. And I think walking away from the manuscript for at least a month, six if you can help it(so go write another book in that time) applies only for the first book.A lot of writers are attached to their first baby. (I hate mine now) and don't want to see it tucked away for any reason, because of all the sweat and blood and tears and whatever else. That's not to say your first MS can't get published, that happens all the time. It's just about being real with yourself.
Also, just as much is learned through revisions as through the actual writing of the book. Tons is learned through rewriting.
It used to take me months to revise a project. Now it takes me a weekend and my darling is ready to go to my cps, usually with minimal errors.
I've got to jet out the door for an hour long trip to take dd to orthodontist. I'll be back later to read thoroughly. I'm a vomit it out writer, not sure how my revision process, it's chaotic mess though.
Awesome blog, Marn!
I'm RD too. I finished the first draft last week and am now knee deep in the first round of revisions. And I'm actually on a roll with the revisions. Perhaps "enjoying" this stage would be too strong a word, but I'm making good progress at a good speed. It's all fresh in my mind and because I know there are people waiting on it, I'm eager to finish up and start submitting.
I'm also with Tiff on it taking way less time this way. This will take me 2 weeks, tops, then I can move on to the next book I'm already really excited about. My first MS (had I liked it enough to actually *do* revisions) would have taken months of re-writes.
Great blog! I definitely subscribe to the "we can't revise a blank page" and my process has changed much more so in my second book then my first. I've now adopted what I call a "script method." My vomit-it-out isn't actual, straight writing but some kind of manic plotting mood I get into where the ideas are coming so fast for scenes in so many areas of the story that it results in a strange combination of telling and showing:
The telling: [When Beth is asleep, Ben sees the taxi outside his window and goes to talk to Alex (fyi: Alex: the grim reaper taxi driver, Carrie: Ben's sister).]
Bits of showing with dialogue, not worrying about dialog tags:
"She can't hear me."
"It appears so."
"Perhaps she can help."
"No. I don't want her involved in this." [some emotion, frustration, anger] "Did you do this? Make Carrie hear me instead."
[Ben hears Beth call out his name.] Ben!
[He looks to the house. Dark house, add atmosphere.]
"She's calling for you."
[conflit in Ben but he goes to Beth, bypassing the stairs in a ghost like instant and appearing at her bedside. Panic from Beth.]
"I'm here."
[Relief from Beth] "I thought you were gone."
[Resignation]"No, I'm a f***ing ghost remember? I can't go."
Sorry for the long post! Anyway, I've taken adding placeholders to the extreme. LOL This is the opposite of trying to minimize revisons. Huge revisions to come of course, but considering it took me YEARS to write the first book, I figure it doesn't hurt to try something else. :)
Oops, that is confusing. Btw, the "Perhaps she can help" dialogue is Alex.
Morning guys!
Chance - V with a little bit of RRrrrr! LOL!! that cracked me up!
I agree with the Revise as You Go issue. I know I stalled out for about a month in the middle of this manuscript because I knew what was behind me wasn't good enough yet but I couldn't quite pinpoint what it was that was "wrong". I felt paralyzed. Ultimately, I got a kick in the pants and got going again, but that is a big obstacle to overcome.
And I think a short honeymoon is in order. I actually finished this MS the week before we went on vacation so I was so busy packing I didn't even think about it and then I was on vacation with a bunch of toddlers. Needless to say I was unable to do revisions then. :) So I just did them in the last five days after I got back and finished my revisions last night.
I'm going to have people read so I'll probably do more revising as I go, but what I felt I needed to do is done now. :)
Hmmm. I'm more of the revise as you go, but I revise as I go because I usually read the last chapter or two of the story to figure out where the story needs to go next. Make sure I'm still calling everyone by the right name. (Can't tell you the number of times I start out with one name in one chapter and use another one in the next.)
So when I reread through, I do minor revisions, add words forgotten, take out the occasional sentence (the real slashing comes later, obviously), and figure out what I need to write next. I esp do this if I'm starting a new chapter because I frequently start a chapter in the wrong POV. (So much easier when I only wrote in first person.) So if I'm struggling with a chapter and it's getting clunky, it's pretty indicative of wrong POV...so I'll end up going back and switching it. (Terri's good about confirming my fears: "Yeah, wrong POV here, it should be....") Usually reading the last chapter or so, makes the gears turn in my head (like a cup of coffee) and I can start plotting "what would be funny or poignant here?" and proceed.
I'm not sure what reviser I am. At first I'll revise right away and try to send it out--but once it's rejected more times that I care to think about, I put it away and decide it should never be looked at again. I have found that coming back 6 months later, I can at least find a new appreciation for the manuscript. Remember the things that need to be fixed; point at the things I did right. (Now my first-first completed manuscript, I can't find any saving graces with it--except maybe the black moment scene and a chapter or two after it...the rest of it, I'm so glad it was rejected. My second manuscript, I like much more about it--but I'm glad it doesn't publish because it's too personal anyway. *LOL*)
So can I be a both kinds of reviser?
Tiff - Yay fellow RD girl! :) I agree I probably needed some distance from my first manuscript. And I'm not sure I hate mine, I think I'm just not in love with it. Like I don't even care about it enough to hate it right now. LOL! Apathetic I suppose. :)
Renee - I do think the Vomit it Out method is great for forward movement. I wouldn't have finished my first MS without it, I don't think.
Hal - I think having an agent already looking for your full is a great incentive to be a Do It Now kind of gal. LOL!
And I'm excited to start working on my next now too. I am going to mess with my synopsis and query this weekend, probably and then start plotting out Marc and Ice's story. :)
Melissa - I like the place holders on steroids! The script method, huh? I'm not sure I could keep myself organized enough through that (hello, I'm a Virgo) and I have serious attention problems so going back to fix would probably make me crazy. But it definitely would help keep going without stopping to dwell on whether someone's resigned or angry. :)
Oh, man. I totally messed up. In my example it was "She CAN hear me." Which is rather the important part. Nevermind...sorry. I will go back to revising that scene now. LOL The point of it is just to GET IT DOWN.
In my first ms I was linear and I wanted it absolutely polished before moving on. And I couldn't send it over to a critique group or partner this way! lol But, as I discovered in the rounds of revisions to come of my "polished" ms, it actually wasn't polished. Even at the end, the supposed FINAL revision, I still had, as Hellie mentioned, the instance where I called a character by the wrong name. But I've even seen that in published novels.
Hells - I think you can be any sort of hybrid reviser you'd like. LOL!
I know even when I was a vomitter, I would go back and reread what came before so that I could jsut make sure I knew where I was going. I never thought of it as revising, exactly, but more smoothing.
I think maybe if I were to go back to my first MS, I'd find it isn't as horrible as I currently think it is, that there'd be something that would redeem it. I'm just not sure I want to right now. :)
When I do write, I'm an RD. I have a nasty habit of just deleting something (well, copied and pasted out of the file into another "dump" file for future looks) because nothing is ever up to my standards of what I consider to be good writing. My first attempt at writing was VD (I can't believe I just typed that) and it worked great, but now that I've been told about all these writing rules and crap, I can't get it out of my head. I don't know what the problem is. I love to break rules.
This is a really great blog, Marn :) I like hearing about everyone's processes.
Ah, see! That be the problem with editing as ya go. Gettin' caught up in the 'rules'.
Cursed rules! They jus' be guidelines!
Know the rules, but get the story told, first!
It's been a while since I was in the final revision stage, but when I was there I recall thinking it took a whole different part of my brain. It was step that I could imagine working on with limited time. Whereas I didn't even want to start a task that drew on the creative part of my brain and get into that writing zone, I could attempt revison.
Now, even if my first rough draft for subsequent writing is getting rougher all the time, I do think there is a value in accepting which step requires which part of our brain for the whole, big picture process. There are tons of steps for of writing a manuscript from idea to polished manuscript, each using either the creative or critical part. Ideas are using the creative part. Rough draft (my form anyway), the critical part. First revision from the rough draft (adding what I read once and have latched on to: "dramatized conficts into the dialogue"), the creative part. Then back and forth from critical to creative for the countless rounds final revisions. I bet there are writing exercises for this, but I didn't look for them, it just surprised me to find it possible to switch back and forth. The value is time management or just peace of mind to accept the process.
I don't complete any step altogether. I don't have the need (as I did before) to say my rough draft is complete and now I can start revision. I still revise to death a certain scene to what I think is polished long before the rough draft is complete. And that may come back to bite me, but it's still forward progress. I think. :)
Know the rules, but get the story told, first!
Exactly! Or, my favorite quote, "Blah, blah, blah...GOLD!"
I'd settle fer that!
So sorry I'm late. Chaos abounds!
I have to say one thing to defent the vomiters. (Never thought I'd be saying that.) It's the "quality" part. I don't think vomiting means you don't know if what you're writing is good or not. I'm a devotee to the vomit method, but I still know when something is good or not. I've written scenes where when I finished, I knew something wasn't right. Or in the middle, it's clearly not working.
Those scenes I will go back and change or alter. And I can feel when I've gotten it right. So, the quality thing isn't really an issue. Just had to get that out. :)
Reading Melissa's comment, it gave me a visual for the process. The first draft is sort of the basic black dress. When you choose the dress, you're looking at something that has a good, solid, flattering shape.
Then, the revising is when you accessorize. What will play up the cut? Where should I focus the accents? Should I add a belt? Which shoes? In revision is where we pretty it up so I think it requires a totally different train of thought, as Melissa says.
I haven't finished anything to know which kind of reviser I'll be, but my intention right now is to finish then set it aside and start something else. So far, whenever I've written something and walked away from it, I've liked it much more when I go back and get to know it again.
That should be "defend" not "defent" and sorry for the long post. I had to get it all out before I forgot what I wanted to say. LOL! Especially since I read this first thing this morning!
Vomit it out and plain black dress... blech!
But I gets it. I do minor edits as I go, but even when I read back it's ta see how the story be progressin' more than concerns about rules.
When I think about it, as for adjusting the process as I've grown, I've just added at least two steps (my rough draft and the first revision from from the rough draft) to get to what is actually the "clean" FIRST draft and the starting point for revision.
My first manuscript went straight from ideas to the first revision, and all the subsequent headaches of writing from scratch. Huh. Hadn't thought of it that way before.
Ohh, Terri, I DO like your basic black dress analogy! That's perfect.
Thanks, Melissa. But the image came to me while reading what you wrote. :) You get half credit.
I am relieved to say I'm past the rules phase. I've switched over to the tricks and tools phase. Instead of worrying about doing something I shouldn't, I focus on tools and tricks I can use to make it better. If you've ever taken the Margie Lawson EDITS course, you know what I'm talking about.
And if you haven't, you can buy the lecture packet on her website and skip the e-course. There are all kinds of tips and ideas and this stuff is easy to understand and adapt to your own stuff. Plus, you can ignore anything you're not interested in using.
I mean, I'm not going to break big rules like have the heroine sleep with someone other than the hero or include four different characters with names that all start with the same letter. But that's more common sense than some big, limiting rule. I mean the only real rules are "do not bore your reader" and "do not confuse your reader." If you follow those two, you're golden.
I do see the irony or difference of opinion though. LOL Where others are striving for the cleaner first draft with revise-as-you-go, I'm doing the opposite.
All I know is I was sorely tempted to toss the first manuscript rather than fix the mistakes. I started my second, current WIP at about the 3/4 point of finishing the first with the idea of making less mistakes. And for the first three or four chapters, written in the same way as the first (linear and revise-as-you-go) it worked. Then I got stuck big time. Being non-linear and allowing a ROUGH draft let things flow. Maybe it's just plotting, but I do feel the need to establish some kind of process. And I don't want to take 10 years or more for a second book. I really don't. lol
I mean the only real rules are “do not bore your reader” and “do not confuse your reader.” If you follow those two, you’re golden.
AND, "do not distract the reader." I have that right in front of me from what Hellie said a while back. I'm just hanging on you guys' every word ya know. LOL (And some words I'll never get out of my head.)
LOL! Yes, we need to throw no distracting in there. Unless you're writing a mystery or suspense and you want your reader to look over there while you have all the clues over here. A little bait and switch is good in myteries.
And it cracks me up that you're hanging on our every word. You should know that half the time we don't have a clue what we're talking about.
Sin - LOL! VD!! I didn't even think of that as I was writing this. :)
I think that Vomitting helps the issue of feeling constricted by rules. And I definitely have done the whole cut and paste into another file for later use. Sometimes I use that stuff, sometimes it just sits and lingers, but at least I know it's there.
I think it's particularly useful (the future looks file) when I'm getting to know my characters. Sometimes I infodump hard in the beginning, but it's almost like I have to write it to know how my characters would react.
Melissa - I like the idea of thinking of writing in two different processes: the critical and the creative. I think that you're right, that we have to be both at different times. I think that the end processes are mostly critical (querying, synopsis writing, revising, etc.)
and Blah blah blah Gold! is a great quote!
Ter - I love the little black dress analogy too! What a cool way to think of it. :)
And I didn't mean any offense about the quality thing. I'm being very general in my "labels" above. I think that some people write fast, well and can keep their later edits on the backburner better than others. I don't know if I'm good at that, especially in the beginning. With this story, my first half was slow going, because I needed to work through it. But the last 30K, well, I pretty much yarked that up over a month. I just felt like I knew exactly how it should go then. But the beginning I always feel like that kid with the blindfold looking for the pinata.
Melissa - I think that so much of this pre-published phase is working out what 'works' for each of us. What gets us the quality product. I don't think there's any right or wrong way, just a right or wrong way for any particular person. I think it's more the understanding that's important.
Ter - I have Margie Lawson's EDITS seminar in my computer somewhere. I need to dig that out again! I'd forgotten all about that! :) Thanks!
I do worry how things will go whenever I get to the next WIP. This one has been brewing for so long, and I did that info dump and delete stuff more than two years ago now. (Which you are so right about that stuff helping us get to know our characters.)
When I start over with new characters, it's going to be from scratch again and I'm guessing the situation will be totally different. I'm kind of looking forward to it, and kind of not.
I belong to the revise infiniely school. Some sections of the first draft are the result of a white-hot word flow that just pours out. Last week I wrote 5200+ words in one day, and even when I wasn't writing, the story was still going in my head. But the next day when I reread those pages, I started revising. And some days, I revise every sentence as I write it. To use Terri's black dress metaphor, I carefully check the seams and test the fabric before I even consider accessories.
Regardless of how much revision I do as I go, I will still move through several drafts after I finish a project. My problem is forcing myself to end revisions.
And The Little Black Dress needs to be added to the drink menu.
You should know that half the time we don’t have a clue what we’re talking about.
Now, don't disallusion me. LOL Actually, I'm attributing a lot of what I consider my adjusted writing process to some of the time spent here. Sometimes distractions are a good thing and what I think this ship provides most is allowing a writer to FEEL like a writer.
Some writers need warm up exercises, but I think you'd laugh your butts off if I claimed my hours here were warm up. :) Nah, I'm not denying it's for fun but I'm working here. Seriously. Even if it's only allowing myself to think like a writer, between comments or longer, I'm writing those things down that I KNOW wouldn't come to me tied down in my chair trying to force the "writing zone." I'm getting a head start on a lot of ideas that lead me to that place. Besides, on my best writer zone days, it's too exhausting to stay there very long. I'm finding I'd much rather pace myself, if I can. To be more productive by being in a WRITER zone rather than a WRITING zone.
Janga - The black dress metaphor when applied to your writing changes as the first draft from you looks more Haute Couture.
I think Melissa just called us foreplay.
LOL!
MWAH!!!!
LOL Stop that. I'm not complimenting you any more! LOL
The Little Black Dress, bein' little, must be a simple shot. That be the bartendin' rules accordin' ta me teachaer in Tortuga. ;)
We let 'er feel like a writer! I guess we be doin' things right.
When avoidin' the actual writin' still leaves ya wit' the energy of a writer...I like that. I may steal that and write a blog about that!
Pirate.
I do think her saying we make her feel like a writer when she's here is the best compliment anyone has ever given us.
Yep, the LBD would definitely be a shot. A shot of sambooka. (Probably spelled wrong but close enough.)
note to self...google sambooka.
Sounds like a dance they'd do on Dancing With the Stars!
And here is Kelly Osborne, dancing the Sambooka!
My problem is forcing myself to end revisions.
Janga, this is one of my problems too. What I hate most about when I do this "one revision too many" is that I'll not only make it worse, but put in a new mistake, like maybe even a typo or repeated word. Or I've moved something that causes more problems. And it's likely that I already had this part critiqued and since I don't feel I can put it in front of someone else AGAIN, it's now up to me to SEE the mistake.
Hmm, I just might beg some pirates for the favor of reading the very last revision of my next finished ms. Don't worry, it will be a while. LOL
Mixed Metaphor girl, that be me!
Aye, Melissa, Janga had a good point. Know yerself well enough that ya know when ta step away. Ya say finished not perfect.
If ya polish ta perfection, ya might go write through the shine ta the base metal and blech...
Polish ta a shine, then step away from the glitter!
I figure that be what editors are fer. Ta point out the small bits that still need work afore we rewrite ourselves ta tatters.
Finished but not perfect is a good distinction. The last revision is more for proofreading and then you need fresh eyes. Actually, several non-writer friends (chosen carefully - and NOT family) came in handy for the very last revision. I had one friend very meticulously write little things like PG 136, Took the fight out "of" Ashby, 1/2 way down page." This meant, my reader had spotted that missing word "of" in this sentence. Proofreading things, but important! No way were my eyes going to spot those things anymore. I self published, but it still wouldn't be right to leave it to apublishing house would catch those things.
And lots of errors in that post! LOL
I don't know, little things like that are better caught by eyes other than ours. They pay people to proof. And yup, they miss things!
But if yer self-publishing, that won't work. I hear readin' yer stuff aloud would catch those things.
Now the child is about to get off the bus so I'll leave you all in peace for a while. :)
I tried that. Even reading backwards. Didn't get the hang of it. :)
Actually, this was a very important part of the revision process, the LAST step to assure me the bugger was as polished as I could make it. I did write a blog on it back in July. I've kind of repeated from it here, but here it is if interested:
http://everythingofinteresttoaromancewriter.blogspot.com/2009/07/proofreading-and-importance-of-fresh.html
Hey, crew... Melissa has a link ta 'r' blog on her blog!
I gots ta get a blog up so I can link me blog ta this blog and vice versa...
A blog-tree!
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