Sunday, August 16, 2009
where's the conflict?
I got stuck in an airport this weekend. Of course -- has anyone flown recently without getting stuck in an airport? Since I had time to kill, and had finished the one book I'd brought in my carry-on, I wandered through one of the bookstore. I spotted a brand new book by one of my very favorite authors and without a second thought and I grabbed it and raced for the checkout stand.I read and read, as fast as I could. The beginning was light and sweet and funny and made me smile. Most of this author's books start like this. And then they get deeper and deeper, and more and more angsty, until I cry my heart out and finally go back to smiling. So when I got half way through, I thought, okay, now we're getting to the good stuff. The deep stuff. The things holding them apart that they will have to overcome and break my heart while doing it.
And then I got to the 2/3 point, and I thought, okay, now we must be getting to the good stuff.
And then I got to the 3/4 point, and I thought, okay, now we must be getting to the good stuff.
And then I got to about the 7/8 point in the book, and a black moment came out of nowhere. Nowhere. It was entirely external, had little-to-no connection to the plot, and then the book was over.
I felt cheated.
Here's how the plot went:
1. Boy meets girl. They don't particularly like each other, so there's a bit of of witty and funny dialogue.
2. Another boy notices girl. Boy gets jealous. They quickly work through this misunderstanding.
3. Boy and Girl realize they are attracted to each other.
4. Boy and Girl fall in love, and have mediocre sex.
5. They get married.
Anyone else notice a huge, gaping hole in this plot? Anything missing? Nothing was holding the two apart. Nothing internal, nothing external (minus the awkward, external black moment at the end). They simply fell in love. And it was cute, in a sappy, gag-me sort of way.
But there was no conflict. None.
And I realized that I think the reason I love angst so much is because I love internal conflict. I love deep conflict. I love the push and pull and struggle between two people trying to navigate their emotions and relationship. That's what makes my heart ache, what makes me root for the characters. And without it, nothing was the same.
So what kind of conflict do you like? What book had the most conflict, or what kinds of conflict do you like to right? Do you focus on more on the internal, the external, or do you like an even split? Which do you prefer to read? Are you sorely disappointed when there isn't enough conflict?
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43 comments:
OK, I be a mutant. I get the need fer internal conflict, but I prefer external. I likes ta see me H/H work tagether ta surmount some massive bit of save the world conflict.
I find meself frustrated by too much internal conflict. I thinks because I be a honesty whore. Ya gots a problem? Spit it out, work it out, get over it. And get on out there ta save the world!
But I be in the minority, I knows.
If, and it be a big if, there be internal conflict, I prefer ta be personal stuff. Not the have to keep it from him because he'll never understand stuff. More the she don't know why she can't connect with him...it be her conflict and part of it be that she don't realize it's even there. He might... That be fun!
Now, that twisty 'nuff?
This is posted under my name, but it's gotta belong to Hal. Mainly because I don't have conflict in my books. Then again, being that my entire love life is based on misunderstandings and lack of communication, it's no wonder I write novels that revolve around this. Only in fiction do characters act like grown ups and talk about shit. In the real world, there is a lot of pouting and not saying anything.
There are books I've read where I thought the conflict or plot was so flimsy you could read a book through it. I prefer conflict where it's harder to mistake it for anything else. *LOL* I don't practice what I preach, but I know it exists. Somewhere.
(I prefer INTERNAL conflict to EXTERNAL conflict. I admit it: I'm Hamlet in real life. Own up to my feelings? You jest! Tell you what I want? Can I write it down for your intead?)
Do you like milk with two sugars in your tea?
Its fun analysing a book according to some formula, say two spoonfuls of conflict, lots of angst, be sure to sweeten it well with plenty of awakening passion and top it off with the good old HEA.
I'm not sure that its necessary or even desirable to stick with one of the well tried formulae. Even the HEA is not necessarily sacrosanct IMO.
Its good to experiment with new ingredients, even at the risk of incurring the reader's wrath. For example, the book could start with 'happy' then the hero (or heroine) is lead astray, and say regularly visits one of those seedy night clubs where he falls in love with the girl in the black mask.
The girl turns out to be his wife and after many quirky twists and turns they end up back together, where they muddle along as before.
So perhaps one should add quirky to the menu. And leave the reader slightly dissatisfied at the end. That's a great way to prepare for a sequel!
A good cook can always produce something delicious from the most basic ingredients. The secret is unique to each cook and lies with the herbs used for flavouring. It can't be found in the recipe book.
Helli, I think Hamlet was actually a man.
So we do have our uses! :lol:
I've been thinking about this as I chew on my dry bagel (stupid coworker used the last of the butter...bah!), and I think I like both. Unfortunately, I'm not good at writing the external conflict. I mean, I have it now, sort of. But it's flimsy at best.
In the next two stories lined up, I have plenty of both. No idea why this first one has been so hard.
I'm a big fan of the internal conflict but do enjoy the external as well.
I'm curently listening to the Audio Book of Karen Rose's Kill For Me, and conflict is everywhere! It seems every character has internal conflict - especially the h/h and the external conflict is the thriller that wraps around the romance.
This is my first book by Karen Rose and I'm really loving it. She has packed so much emotion, conflict and twists into one story that I feel I'm listening to an epic. I'm very impressed.
You have to have some conflict or there really is no story. Everyone talks about character growth, and that can't happen if conflict doesn't arise to make the character learn, adapt and eventually grow.
Again, I'm a huge sucker for internal conflict! Give me a book with a hero who thinks he's not worthy of the heronine and I'll be a happy camper.
Hal - I hope your trip/wedding went well! :)
As for internal versus external... I like them both, and I prefer when the internal and external conflicts resolve themselves in the same black moment. I see sometimes that the internal conflict will be resolved and then the external conflict (the save the world conflict) gets resolved later. Which is fine, but I prefer them together. Like if the H/H don't get over their internal issues, they can't save the world sort of thing. (PS, anyone notice I read a LOT of paranormal these days?)
But I think that both are good. And if I can only have one, I think internal is more important. I'm a Hamlet too, apparently. LOL!
Huzzah! I found my eyeshadow!
*mad fool dancing*
Sorry! Happy moment for me since I've been looking for a month.
Okay, I'm a big fan of conflict all around. I don't care if it's internal or external but I expect conflict to be there or I will happily dance over the burning text of said book.
And Hellie, your book has plenty of conflict. What do you call shooting someone? I'd say that has conflict written all over it.
I've said it once, and I'm going to continue to say it that Kim Harrison manages so much conflict in her books- it's like a tangled web of internal and external. It's SO good. I have writer's envy that she's THAT good. Though, I have a girl crush on her so all my envy is null and void.
And if there is no conflict present fairly early on in the book, I just drop it like a bad habit. I need conflict. I feed off of conflict drama in a book. So if I get 100 pages in and the book is sucking wind, I just stop reading unless I know the author takes about a 100 pages to get going, then I give them until 150.
You know, I think I prefer less conflict than Sin. If I'm getting thrashed around by too much conflict, then I don't want to read anymore. At some point I just say, "OH, COME ON!"
I'm guessing this stems from too much experience with conflict in RL. LOL!
Still a conflict because he did something to deserve it.
I only shot him because he deserved it.
Technically, at the end, we learn he *didn't* deserve it.
Just sayin'...
2nd - I like big stakes in external conflict as well, and it's always fun to see the h/h work together to accomplish something. Though I do think there is a huge difference between misunderstandings between characters because they won't talk, and actual internal conflict. If it's just that neither character is mature enough to spit it out, I'm totally with you. But I've read amazing books where the internal conflict was so deeply rooted that it wasn't a matter of talking it out -- it was a matter of that character needing to grow and change before they could truly love and receive love from the other character. More a matter of healing than just discussing, if that makes sense. Those are the ones that get me every time!
Sorry hellie! Is there a way to change the category now? I wasn't sure...I didn't want to suddenly make everyone's comments disappear or something. Eek :)
And from what I've heard, there's definitely conflict. Didn't you say there was a cheating spouse and one got shot? That's major conflict!
And I'm a sucker for internal conflict too. Isn't it great that by the end of a good novel, the guy knows exactly what to say? I wish that would happen in real life *g*
LOL Q - I actually don't take sugar in my tea :)
I totally agree with you that authors need to take risks and mix it up. Perhaps that is what this author was attempting to do. My problem wasn't that it didn't follow a formula, or that it didn't have the right amounts of any one element, is was that nothing happened. There was no plot.
I love your example: "The girl turns out to be his wife and after many quirky twists and turns they end up back together, where they muddle along as before."
Now that would be a good book! Quriks and twists and turns -- that's a plot, and a what sounds like a highly entertaining one at that!
I think that was my problem with this book. I wanted to see the characters do something, or learn something or grow. I wanted a plot. And I was disappointed when I didn't get one. But maybe you're right and she's just setting us up for the sequel :)
No, Terri, I assure you, regardless of what Ben didn't do, he still deserved to be shot.
Ter - a dry bagel? Bad co-workers for taking the buttter!
Some books have more internal or external, and it totally works for those characters and plot. Don't force it! And yay for already having the next two books figured out *g*. I have the main character for a sequel, but absolutely no idea what happens to her or why. It's totally stressing me out
It's totally stressing you out NOW? LOL! Seriously, one book at a time, girlfriend. And the next two is not "the next two in the series." Just to make that clear. My books don't actually connect. Not sure why. They just don't come to me that way.
Though I admit I considered giving two characters from this book their own little story, but I won't know if I want to do that until I get to the end.
Hellie - He deserved something, but I'm not sure the punishment fit the crime in this case. LOL! Though it works superbly for the story.
Sabrina - You have to have some conflict or there really is no story. Everyone talks about character growth, and that can’t happen if conflict doesn’t arise to make the character learn, adapt and eventually grow.
THAT's what I was trying to say! Thank you for saying it much more eloquently that I did. I think that's what bugged me most about this book -- the characters never had to struggle for anything. They never had to grow, or change, or learn anything. They just met, fell in love, and lived happily ever after. And it was cute, and it was sweet, but that was all.
I haven't read Karen Rose, but I'm going to have to. I've heard wonderful things about her. And I also adore books where the hero thinks (or truthfully knows) that's not even close to being worthy of the heroine's love. I'm a sucker for those too!
Ter - if that's how they come to you, go with it. I think it's often more fun to start with new characters, than try to keep everything straight in connected books.
And I know, I know. I shouldn't stress now. It's amazing the things I can find to stress out about *g*
Hey Marn. The trip went like it could have only gone with my crazy family. :)
And I love it when the internal and external conflicts explode at the same time. I think you're the first person that I heard say that, and as soon as you said it, it was one of those "Duh!" moments for me, like of course they should intersect! (and of course, it gave me the black moment for False Move, which I can't wait to write *g*)
Yay for eyeshadow Sin! I love it when I find make-up I thought I'd lost *g*
Dance over the burning text of the book? LOL! I was just going to pitch it in a trash can, but I think I like your way better.
I need to read Kim Harrison. She's on my "when I have more time to read" list, which will apparently be never. Hmm, maybe I should sneak in a trip to library on my lunch break...
I'm not sure I can separate internal and external conflict. I'd say I like internal conflict best, but of a sort that is driven by the external. I love the idea of something being outside the character's control. That vulnerability to the external is usually the conflict that gives me instant empathy for the character and make their internal conflict ring true, if that makes sense. :)
I also like, what Marnee said, about the external and internal conflicts being resolved at the same time. That is very satisfying!
Bummer, they just emailed me to inform that they are out of stock. :(
Grrrr. I must go looking again.
Am crazily curious as to what that book is.
I read a book that I quite enjoyed by a VERY famous author about three years ago, but the conflict didn't come in until the last fifty pages. There was an opportunity for conflict early early on in the story but the author resolved it within the first one hundred pages with ease. And I mean EASE! The hero was prejudiced toward the heroine because she has magic powers. And through those magical powers he is able to let go of that prejudice because it had been a spell that someone put on him. Would've been more interesting if it had been genuine prejudice that he worked through.
Internal conflict is HUGE for me. Emotion is raw and isn't always logical. It's wrenching and fascinating to see how a hero or heroine comes to terms with their problems.
Great blog!!:)
I just figured out Sin meant she found a place to buy her eye shadow. LOL! I thought she meant it was around her house somewhere and she couldn't find it for a month. I should really get more sleep.
I read a book last Christmas by a well-established author and at the end just kind of went, "That's it?" There was nothing that kept the H/H apart. The heroine had something in her past she thought he wouldn't like, but once he found out, it was a non-issue. I was really surprised that there wasn't more.
But, I'll say I did care about the characters since I didn't stop reading. I think I kept expecting something big to happen. Then nothing.
Melissa - I like that too, when the internal and external are the same, or when they drive each other and are integrally linked. Those are the best!
'Kay, Sabrina said it well. I do like internal conflict but it gots ta be real. None a' this wishy-washy coulda' been resolved wit' one good admission crap.
It's got ta be believable, deep rooted ta convince me that it be worthy a' bein' a conflict that could actually derail the relationship.
Savin' the world ain't got time fer bullshit!
Kelly and Ter - what you both described is exactly what happened in this book. There was all this great history and potential for conflict, and then....nothing.
I loved the character, loved the writing, loved the concept and the first half....I just wanted something to happen.
Kelly - I agree. Raw, wrenching emotion can just tear my heart out. That's what I want to read in books. I want to feel like I'm right there with them, feeling the same thing, and stuck in the same impossible situation. (and of course, then I want my HEA *g*).
Ter - I thought the same thing! Sin, I hope you find somewhere else that sells it, and that it doesn't take a month this time!
I like books where worlds are saved, but I also like quiet books where it's an individual's life that's being saved, not physically but emotionally and spiritually. I think some of the greatest battles are those waged within the human heart and soul.
Thanks for speaking for us non-world-threatening writers. LOL! I worry if anyone will care if no one is fighting for their life or battling evil forces trying to destroy the human race.
Beautifully said Janga.
I'm trying to write a "quiet" book now, but I'm sure I'll find it more exhausting in parts than, as Terri says, "fighting for their life or battling evil forces trying to destroy the human race."
Looking through the comments, I thought the inner demons were winning by a head until I read Janga.
Does saving worlds count as a romantic theme?
If I could save someone's spiritual life, I think it would give me a huge lift. Yep that's definitely the sort of story that I want to read!
Melissa - It is almost more difficult, isn't it? You have to find a way to raise the stakes with out putting anyone's life in danger. It's difficult to put the reader on the edge of her seat when the stakes are only a broken heart. Or in my case, the loss of a job or a business AND a broken heart.
I agree Janga - the stakes don't need to be physical, either for an individual or the world. Saving someone emotionally and/or spiritually can be even more poignant than saving the world. Beautifully said!
By all means, saving the personal world counts. I surely don't mean to make it sound like it don't. Some a' the biggest struggles involve just two people...I've read some loverly books featuring the only world in danger bein' the one between the H/H.
Q - Course saving the greater world can involve a romance! Hard ta find a bigger external conflict than world destruction! Actually helps ta bring perspective ta the relationship between the H/H...
No, these two paragraphs do not contradict themselves. I'm a complicated person. I can enjoy and find the intricities in any conflict!
Whether it be great or small depends on who is involved. No greater worry for a small child than the loss of a favorite toy...it's the end of the world! And it be real, no doubt.
Hee, hee. The real debate!
OK Chance, I can see that a romance set against the background of say the second world war would be OK. In that case the war is historical fact and one can focus on the H/H relationship within that context.
With alien invasions or other SF themes though, the difference of scale between the romance and the war seems too great for it to work well. Great science fiction eg Wells 'War of the Worlds' or McCaffree's Rowan series, tend to have any romance as a secondary theme to the war, but I may be wrong...it has been known! *grin*
Oooh! A challenge! A save the world paranormal romance...
Let me get ta a bookstore and peruse the shelves and get back ta ya!
I did write a "save the world paranormal" actually, and my way to bring the focus back to the hero and heroine was to give the heroine amnesia so she "forgot" about the larger issue. LOL
Now, for my current project, I'm trying very hard to "keep it real." :)
Melissa, shush.
Don't tell that to Chance! *grin*
That sounds like a pretty clever ploy. I would guess that maybe the H/H were caught up in the spin-off from the main action.
Anyway we all know that 'love conquers everything' :wink:
I think Chance must be lost in that bookstore or perhaps she's failed!
*yawn* Can't wait any longer.I'm off to slumber-land.
Q - I wave me ass in yer general direction!
If me brain weren't so swiss cheesed, I know they be out there... I wrote one! I write them all the time!
As Last Chance said...he's too scientifical to believe that the magic between a H/H can change the world; save the world; birth a new world.
How be that for a woman who basically don't believe in the HEA or reads romance? But she believes in the magic between a H/H!
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