Wednesday, June 23, 2010

Why No Greek Alphabet for Our Heroines?

We spend a fair amount of time talking about heroes around here, as does most of the romance writing community.  Alpha, Beta, Gamma… it’s practically a frat party when we get going.  But when it comes to heroines, our ability to define them isn't as clear cut.

Oh, we have the different “positions” if you will.  The bluestocking.  The wallflower.  The adventurer.  Whatever.  But within these different constructs there’s plenty of room to maneuver.  There’s no archetype, at least not in the way of Alpha, Beta, Gamma.  The heroines regularly defy the position they’re put in and, in fact, we want them to stretch out of the molds.

Take Penelope Featherington from Romancing Mr. Bridgerton by Julia Quinn.  A wallflower at first glance, but part of her charm, part of the brilliance of her character is how she isn’t a wallflower, how she becomes more than a wallflower through the story.  Or Haven Travis from Blue-Eyed Devil by Lisa Kleypas.  She’s the rich, society girl.  But then, the circumstances of the plot make it so she doesn’t fit that mold.

I’m not saying that heroes don’t defy their archetypes.  Alphas soften to love their heroines.  Betas prove they’re tough when it counts.  But at the end of the story, they’re still Alpha or Beta or whatever.  I would suggest that some of these heroines aren’t what they’re initially drawn to be by the time the story concludes.  At least, they prove to be more than the sum of some label.  And we love every second of watching them do it.

Do you think that we as readers and writers expect our heroines to perform a different role than our heroes?  If we want heroes we can fall in love with, what do you think our heroines’ purposes are?  Do we want to be them?  At least to relate to them?  Why do you think the heroine archetypes are so much less stringent than the heroes?  Do you think they are less stringent?

29 comments:

2nd Chance said...

Oooo! Gender definitions! Every pirate to their corner...

My two cents...women are defined by men and men are defined by men. If a woman is an alpha she's a bitch. An older man who has a young girlfriend is a sugar daddy, she is a gold digger. An older woman who has a young boyfried is a cougar (predator)...he is a cub (sorta creepy if you ask me...cubs are cougars offspring...ooky!)

Gender defines labels more than we like.

I think that is changing, but it's slow and in books, since most romance readers are women...we worry more about how the guys are defined than the women. We want the women to be more flexible because...that's realistic, most women do change as demand warrants change. And we want to be able to relate to them. So one heroine will appeal to us because we see ourselves as the wallflower, or the debutant, but later the protective lioness, etc.

And it's late, so I may not be making any sense at all.

Tiffany Clare said...

I have no idea why the heroines archetypes are less stringent. But I love my heroines. I think they can be defined and labeled as different types (only there are more to choose from than how we label our heroes). I think heroes break their molds too but we always fall on calling them a certain type. You could label heroines with those three too. But we generally don't. Because we as women, I think, want to be so much more :)

Marnee Jo said...

Chance - this is all interesting. We want to see women as changing because see ourselves that way. So we see ourselves as inherently more complex than men?

Tiff - Because we as women, I think, want to be so much more I love this.

I think we could label our heroines alpha, beta, whatever but I feel like we shy away from that. Is it because don't want to be labeled like that? Or because our heroines do go further than those labels?

PS, I love your heroines too. :)

Donna said...

I want the heroine to be someone intriguing for the hero to fall in love with -- I'm fascinated by the hero's admiration for a woman he has no intentions of loving, and I love seeing what intrigues him about the heroine. I like the heroine to be the right match for the hero, so that he can do all the manly heroic things that make my heart flutter. :)

Bosun said...

In all my years of reading, I've never put myself in the place of the heroine. I have to be able to relate to her, but I can still disagree with her. As long as the writer made it clear why she says and does the things she does, then I can stick with it. But there have been times I've read heroines I hated. Too whiney or obstinate (funny coming from me) or absolutely refusing to see what's right in front of her.

I think of in terms of, would I want to be friends with this woman. If the answer is a resounding no, I'm not going to like the book all that much.

I think by nature, it's assumes heroines are beta. Women have power, but we use it more subtly most of the time. We'll outwit you instead of beating you with brute strength. But then there are those urban fantasy chicks that kick ass and take names that are absolutely alpha. I'd be completely thrown if a woman in an historical were an alpha. Stubborn and intelligent and knows her own mind, sure. But she'd still come across beta in that time period.

Bosun said...

That was a seriously meandering answer to your question. LOL! Sorry, I'm a little off today. Fighting this headcold is not fun.

Marnee Jo said...

DRD - so it comes back to the swoon-worthy hero. I can buy that. I think I probably read for the fantasy man....

Bo'sun - I think you're right; most heroine's are beta. That's interesting. I hadn't really thought of it that way. Except, as you mention, most urban fantasy heroines. They seem to be a little rougher stuff. I agree about the betas in historicals. Society enforces beta-ness

Bosun said...

To clarify, I am in no way an UF heroine kicking ass and taking names. :) But, you know what I mean.

Bosun said...

I'm guessing it's why heroes that are beta are sometimes referred to as more "girly". Which totally ticks me off. LOL! But beta is associated with feminine qualities.

And Chance is right about the Alpha woman being considered a bitch. I get that from time to time.

Scapegoat said...

I agree with what everyone has said - including that I don't always try to put myself in the role of the heroine. I do find myself looking at them as friends - would I want to hang out with this woman? That's my criteria.

Marnee Jo said...

I could see you kicking ass and taking names, though. In a good way. :)

2nd Chance said...

Hmmm. Yer right. I don't really put myself in the role of heroine when I read. Now! When I write? You bet your sweet ass. As I've always claimed, writing is therapy and I write myself over and over and over and over again!

I'm not an alpha, usually. A beta? Maybe... It is fun on occassion to write the heroine as very alpha and use all the 'what if' scenarios... What if I didn't care so much about how others feel, what if I just took the lead and pushed forward, what if I seized what I wanted without reservations that I deserve it...what would that feel like? How would that change who I am?

Then write it and play with it.

Marnee Jo said...

Would I want to hang out with her.... Scape, I agree. Not be best friends, just do I find her interesting.

Chance - I agree we have to jump in to our heroines. And I love the what ifs. :)

Janga said...

I think there are a great many current writers who see themselves as writing alpha heroines. I see the term often in online discussions. I do think alpha heroines are a minority, but a growing one.

Since "alpha" refers to dominance with the pack, it's not really surprising that relatively few alpha heroines are found in romance novels. Despite advances in the rights of women, ours is still a patriarchal culture in which "leader" most often means "male." But I think there are a number of ways to type heroines. One of the more interesting is Tami Cowden's eight female archetypes. A brief look at them can be found in AAR's archives: http://www.likesbooks.com/78.html

Bosun said...

Thanks, Janga. My heroines all seem to fall under the "Librarian" description with a touch of the "Nurturer" thrown in. I even have a heroine that is a librarian. :)

Janga said...

Ter, I think the best characters are always going to have a "little bit thrown in." The more interesting and complex the character, the less likely she--or he--is to be contained within a label.

Bosun said...

That is the trick, I guess, to making characters come to life. None of us are just one thing, humans are complicated. Makes sense our characters would be as well.

Scapegoat said...

Thanks for the link Janga. That was a nice overview. I'd say 80% of the heroines I want to write are Spunky Kids. About 10% would be librarians and the other 10% a mix. Very interesting.

Donna said...

I enjoyed the link too -- I loved where it described how they'd act if a fight broke out in a bar. LOL

I'm a little under the weather today, which is why I'm not around much. I dragged myself out to get some strawberries at the farmer's market -- NONE! LOL The season is over already.

2nd Chance said...

Ah, Donnaroo! I live near the strawberry fields of Watsonville and they are still everywhere! Sorry!

*not really, more for me!

Bwah ha ha!

2nd Chance said...

Great article, Janga. I think I'd have to say I mostly write Crusaders, with a dash of Librarian and Free Spirit.

Really fascinating!

Marnee Jo said...

Great article Janga! I think I'm a Survivor with a little Crusader. I love that.

2nd Chance said...

You know, we should put together the same sort of archtype with the pirates. Which heroine is the captain? The bo'sun? The quartermaster, cook, gunner, bartender...

That could be a blast!

Bosun said...

Chance - I love that you felt the need to tell us your characters have that free spirit element. As if we wouldn't know.

It might be dangerous labeling ourselves. LOL! I know I'd come across as vanilla - hello librarian! - and then I'd just have to ignore all you action packed, exciting pirates. Then again, I'm totally a survivor and can turn crusader when I get riled. Huh, maybe it would be harder to narrow our descriptions down.

2nd Chance said...

Well, use yer pirate self as an archtype! Yer the organizer, the practical crewperson who makes sure there is enough food, enough shamwows, enough rum...ya keep the crew talking to each other...

Marnee Jo said...

PS, I think I need to get a shamwow. Chance is so complimentary.

Marnee Jo said...

Bo'sun, I can assure you that you're no more librarian than I am. I have no idea what archetype I'd be, but I fear it wouldn't be as ninja cool or wryly witty as everyone else.

There's no pirate persona for tired mom covered in vomit.

2nd Chance said...

tired mom covered in vomit

How romantic you make motherhood seem...

Hmmm. Give me time, I'll work on the pirate heroine archtypes... Not everyone can be a cool ninja pirate, I agree... I'll pull out the rum and look fer some inspiration.

Marnee Jo said...

How romantic you make motherhood seem

LOL :)