Thursday, April 15, 2010
Mercy or Murder?
MERCY!* “Sin! Come off the edge of the yardarm! It ain’t worth it!” 2nd Chance shouts to the top of the billowing sail. At the very end of the crossbeam, preparing to fling herself into the foam below stands Quartermaster Sin, pale with despair.
* “2nd, what did you say to Sin?” Cap’n Hellion gazes up at black robed ninja. “Get down here!”
* “Wasn’t me that did it, Cap’n. That series she worships ended and she’s unhappy ‘bout it.” 2nd sighs. “Granted, I did sorta rub it in, but I ‘spected she’d pull out her stars, not dash fer the yardarm… I mix up a Hooha, extra glitter, fer ‘er.”
* 2nd hurries away to the bar and pulls out her biggest tankard.
* Moments later, Sin stands before the Cap’n. “I knew it was comin’, Hel. I almost wanted it! But…” She threw herself at the approaching bartender, who held out the drink. It was seized, upended to her lips and emptied. 2nd took the empty glass and hurried to refill it…
It was going to be a long day on the Revenge.
It’s hard on the reader when an author ends a beloved series. It’s hard on the author, if they truly love the series themselves. But sometimes, sigh, a series needs to die. Sometimes they die too young. Whether it be a mercy killing or a bitter murder is the question.
I be writing a long series, I hit the twelfth book and reached an ending. And I cried, and cried, and cried! Three days of being miserable. Until I opened my laptop and found a new beginning, jumping ahead a number of years. At this point, the series is nearing the end of its thirtieth volume. If I find myself still wanting to keep going, I’ll write until I’m done. Yes, I know. They call me mad…
*twitch
*wink-twitch
*wink
I don’t expect to see all of these books published. If they were, I’m sure the reading public would get tired of the characters. I don’t. I’m the writer. The public might call for a mercy killing. And they would probably be right. (I can still write them for me!)
The same goes when the author doesn’t seem to care about the series any longer, and it just ‘phoning’ them in. And the writer decides on killing the series. (If the reading public doesn’t beat them to it.) Again, a mercy killing.
There also be the case where the series has attracted a type of fan that demands it go the way they want it to go. And the writer sees it differently. Who will win in this struggle? Anyone’s guess! Either new fans come aboard that are content with the course the writer sets, or the fans end up killing the writer’s muse with constant barrage of demands. Battle ensues, but it doesn’t involve the publisher or even the public. It’s the fan-atics verses the author.
Do what the public wants? They let Maddy and Dave consummate their relations in Moonlighting and the fire went out of the series. It’s risky…who holds the wheel? If the author follows the muse, ignores the public…things can get nasty. But…
The case of Arthur Conan Doyle comes to mind. He tired of his great detective, Sherlock Holmes. And tried to kill him off honorably. Doyle was in mind to write of more paranormal subjects, found Holmes too logical for him… The public screamed. His editor screamed. He was castigated, named a villain. He gave in, resurrected Holmes. And went on for many merry years.
A case of an author who longed to do the deed. Did it. And repented.
Now, sometimes the publisher delivers the killing blow, with no satisfying ending in series. And the author cries. The reader cries. This was murder! Alas, unless it is picked up by another publisher, the books don’t reach an end. Like a poorly ended television series, the public is left with a deep pit of emptiness where that storyline once merrily bubbled.
Murder!
Is there an ideal length for a series? Is it three? Or five? Maybe there is no set number. Maybe it all comes down to letting the reading public deliver the blow with their wallets.
We all know there are authors waiting in the wings, with books to sell. Who bears the brunt of the responsibility? The author? The publisher? The readers?
I know we ain’t goin’ ta get inta particulars, crew, but what do ya think in general? Be there a set limit? Can a series go on too long? Ya know, Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote 24 Tarzan novels. (I be shooting ta be the next ERB, meself…) All of the younger adult series of yesteryear went on and one and on. Nancy Drew, Trixie Belden, The Hardy Boys… Can a modern day author carry it off? Nora is doing it as J.D. Robb with her In Death series. Anybody else? Maybe it’s just not possible with romance, as ya can only put off the HEA so long…
As fer the fan-atic verses the author…I find this fascinating.
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59 comments:
There are several authors pulling it off. One in particular is Lorelei James with her Rough Riders series. I absolutely love the fact that I get to revisit characters I loved so much in previous books. I hope there is room for more series work out there. I hope to be one of them. Bonni
Oh, they are out there, the question is how does an author know when to call it quits... And who really decides it?
And the fan-atics that really romp about on the internet add a fascinating facet to that question.
In the past, authors might have contact with fans through letters and some authors had fanclubs with newsletters and even a few conventions out there. But with the internet!? It's just viral!
I think with pure romance, series are a tough sell...but add a kick of urban fantasy, fantasy, scifi and paranormal and it can be done.
I'll give the practical response. When the author/editor starts noticing a decline in sale, it might be time to stop the series.
But there are some open-ended series that I think could go on forever. JR Ward's vampires. Sherrilyn Kenyon's Dark-Hunters. It sounds like JD Robb's In Death series might be like that.
On the other hand, some series are created with a defined ending in mind. There's an overarching storyline that winds up to a specified end. Harry Potter, I think.
I agree that series are tough unless they've got a paranormal/fantasy twist. I think then it's just interconnected books. Which don't bother me at all. I love seeing beloved characters again.
Marn hit the point I was going to make. There's a difference between connected books and a series. Jo Beverly is stilling writing what they call the Rogues books. The early ones connected pretty tightly, actually spread a sort of murder mystery across several books. But these books are more connected in that the new main characters know the past main characters, sometimes distantly, and it's not the same two carrying the through all.
For me, a series needs to have a thread that runs through all the books. One that grows and changes, had a beginning, middle and end. If you never end the series, then you never have a resolution. I'm guessing the JD Robb books manage to find new threads, guessing since I don't read them, and from what I hear, the characters do progress. That might be the trick to the longevity. And it probably helps to be a massively talented writer with lots of experience. :)
I'm trying to decide if Suzanne Brockmann's Navy SEAL books are a series or interconnected -- either way, she's massively talented, because she keeps LOTS of threads going in each book, and throughout the books. The characters go through a lot of growth across the books.
I'm dying for the next one, which won't be out til 2011, and I suspect it may be the last one. It's a long series, and I wonder if SHE is getting tired, because from the fans I saw at a booksigning last summer, THEY are definitely not tired of the series!
There’s a difference between connected books and a series.
Yep. I think series in romance will continue for a very long time. They are irrisistable for both the author and the reader. I know that, as a reader, I've (sometimes unknowingly) bought a book sometimes 2 or 3 books into a series and had to (I mean, HAD to!) go back and buy the earlier books. It wasn't that I was lost - - the book could stand alone - - but I still wanted to catch up with a secondary character's story if I knew it was out there.
It's kind of like the pre-requisite option of my classes...sure, they SAY you don't need a previous class, but I've found it would have helped!
As a writer, I know I'm tempted to have that interconnected story with secondary characters. I'm not sure I could manange to honestly say it could stand alone though.
The only series I was truly sad to see come to an end was Harry Potter. I could have read more books about Harry Potter's world; or even have a "spin off" of Albus going to school. (Those books, I imagine, would be a lot lighter without the overarcing theme of death and evil. I'm not sure they would be as "good"--they'd be good--but I like Harry Potter because it touches me on an emotional level, makes me think, as well as makes me laugh and enchants me with the magic. A book without those darker, universal themes wouldn't connect me as firmly, I think, but maybe not. There are other themes, like friendship, belonging, et al, that can do something similar.)
I've read every Dark Hunter book--and the story itself is interesting--but if it ended, I wouldn't miss it like I did Harry Potter. I think the series has gone on so long that I'm just not as connected as I once was--but I think it's because some of the books feel phoned in...or too similar to a previous book. It's almost like watching the last season of LOST. I got tired of watching the show during season THREE--and now I'm just waiting for the end already and all I think is, "Really? This was your big plan? You couldn't have wound this up in season 2?"
I don't think three is the magic number. I think five is usually a good number. Not too short, not too long--more like a nice cruise. Seven is probably the outer limit of a good series. And anything beyond that, good luck.
Somewhere over the rainbow, I have come off as a drama queen to my dearest Chanceroo. LOL
My three favorite series' (which you slightly had me in a panic about this morning Chanceroo when I started to read this and thought, "Oh crap! Did Kim announce something and I've missed it?!") are and were, Kim Harrison's Hollows series, Tara Janzen's Crazy (et al) series and Janet Evanovich's Plum series. I'm starting to fade out of Evanovich. I'm not pleased with her quality of writing anymore. (And I'd rather not discuss Meyer since I still think she should've stopped at Eclipse and wrote in the wedding as a epilogue to the series. I think the fourth book was just overkill.)
I write in series'. I can't foresee myself giving up on characters after I hit the first book. I'm only getting started in their life. I can't stop there. I must keep going. I must make their lives even worse and find new ways to torture souls.
So how does one know when to stop with those characters and move to another set? I'd like to say you know in your heart when to let go, but Evanovich is on book 16, Harrison is going on book 9, Janzen is going on book 11. Lara Adrian (another of my favs) is on book 8 (Oct 2010) with two more planned. Now, Janzen and Adrian use different heroes and heroines for each book. Harrison and Evanovich stick with the same each book. Is there a trick to writing a long series? I dunno, but I'm looking for it.
There's got to be a point where there's nothing left to tell about characters. I mean, look at people you've known for a long time in real life, and you know ALL their stories, and have heard them at least fourteen times -- LOL -- you know what they're going to say before they actually say it!
I wonder if writers keep going because they've committed to a certain number of books in a contract, and they hope they can come up with something new and fresh with these characters.
Marn - I think sales can be the teller, but... I read time and again of books in RT where readers are bereft, looking for what happened to a series they were loving. Publishers go under, lines change...and sometimes, it's just plain old murder.
And I can see a difference between a series setting, which could go on and on and on if the universe/world is creative enough to make it work. Charles de Lint has done this with his Newford Series. Familiar characters have their own stories, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a series.
I think of a series as using the same characters, like what Nora ala JD Robb is doing. If there is an arc in that series, it's very subtle and very slow...but as long as the rest of the books continue to be fast and hot, I don't miss it.
Bo'sun - I do think a long, long series is hard to pull off as straight romance. Because romance readers demand a resolution.
Interconnected stories are different, I agree. And what connects them. The world? Familia ties? The Ton?
I actually don't care for the 'sailed off into the sunset and we never see them again stuff'. As I've stated before, I want to know and then? into infinity.
Donna - Imagine what it would have been like for Doyle in this day and age if he had killed Holmes and the wrath of the internet had descended on him! As it was, letter to the editor and public outcry saw him relent...
Today? With this interconnected media we have? He'd have received death threats!
Melissa! How's school going!?
I don't know about the stand alone thing with series. I know authors/editors/agents say they must be able to stand alone. But imagine stepping into the Buffy universe without ever having seen any of the earlier shows... I'm not sure it should be done every time.
When you read a series, it gets a little old to have the explanation in every book reg. what came before. I get the need, but I know when I was writing feverishly of the Caribbean, it drove me nuts trying to insert a short synopsis of what came before into every book.
And sometimes book from book was a bit cliff-hangerish.
If I ever see them published, I'm going to be do some massive re-writes, I know! Darn it.
Hellie - See, I honestly lost interest in HP after book four. I was curious still, but not so desperately in love to pick up each book. As they got thicker and thicker and thicker, I felt more and more buried in minutia.
I'm more likely to pick up a series if each book is on the slender size. But that is just me.
I know with HP, I'd be worried that any new books would just be pandering to the public and not really carry the same magic.
I can handle seven! At a time. If my Caribbean series ever sees the market, I could put them out seven a year...for four years...
*wink
*wink
*twitch
*wink
Sin - Sorry if I worried ya. Nope big announcement, but I'm sure it's gonna come some day. Sorry!
I just finished Harrison's latest book and I felt it held together better than the last one. Rachel's life is getting so complex it's a bit hard to follow anymore. So many little clues left reg. what new theat could menace Rach...
I'd like to see her get a vacation. Just a short one... I sometimes find it hard to follow where things are going.
JE lost me with the repetitive simplicity of the books, and Harrison doesn't lose me with complexity, but I do get a little dizzy.
Drama Queen? No, but I bet the day the announcement is made you'll be heading fer me bar!
Now, Donna...here's were we gonna disagree...There’s got to be a point where there’s nothing left to tell about characters.
Nah, people are complex and if they live in a complex, everchanging, mutable world, there will always be challenges to meet and the need to grow. I swear, 29+ volumes about Jack and Miranda were just getting started!
But they aren't romance, which is why I think it keeps going smoothly.
I'm not sure why falling in love is supposed to signal the end of an interesting life... I find myself chaffing at that limitation to a 9th degree!
I have this vision of the Evanovich fan-atics battling it out... a story submission contest. Write it where Joe dies and she goes with Ranger or write it where Ranger dies and Joe wins Stephanie forever and ever...
Put up some real stakes, like JE will go with the one she judges as superior. Have a round robin type writing tournament...
And the blood will flow!
Bwah ha ha!
See, I could write the story about the contest. Gladiator style write off. Losers? BTW, fed to the lions.
Thumbs up or thumbs down?
And with that parting thought...I'm off with Bonnie for a walk along the bluff!
I would be in on that round robin. You better believe it.
In regards to Harrison, I think I will be sad to see the end of her series, but if it's done right, I would be sad to see my favorite characters end but would have closure.
I mean, I'm already in on a Plum round robin now. What would one more hurt? lol
What do you think of Rach's new love interest?
And yup, you'd be in that round robin, throwing stars and taking no prisoners, I'm sure of that!
Chance, I think you're right about people being complex and all -- unfortunately it seems they are also not willing to explore that complexity, and that's when they get boring to me! LOL
And you're so right about falling in love shouldn't signal the end of an interesting life -- that's why I love having those characters show up in the next book of the series. LOL So I can see how they're doing, how they're handling married life, etc.
Yeah, but Donna? Why can't they still have adventures, still experience sexual tension, continue growing romantically?
Just checking in signals to me that they are settled, no real challenges...just kids, house painting...
*yawn
Nick and Nora led an exciting life. The Harts. Rourke and Dallas. That couple from the Mummy movies... (Though the third one stunk.)
I can remember in high school...my then boyfriend kept play proposing to me...and I kept saying to him that I was too young to die.
Two years after high school we got married. And I'm not dead yet! We've had some fun married adventures. No saving the world, but this is real life. But he saved my life...
Sigh. Just drives me crazy why is always has to be someone new and bright in a story. Like the married guy trading in his wife for a new model...
Over here we have a radio series called 'The Archers .... an everyday story of country folk' which has been running for around 70 years I think with six 12 min episodes each week. Its still going strong with no indication of dying, though the original actors and script writers have gone!
The trick here is to start with a village community with perhaps three central families and just let it evolve naturally, keeping in tune with real world events and problems. As the real life actors dye or retire the corresponding fictional characters tend to have fatal accidents and of course children are born and carry on the baton.
I have always been a fan and don't really see why one shouldn't have an indefinitely long book series. As with 'the archers' though, it needs to grow and evolve in a dynamic way, like a real life community.
I think there could be enormous potential for audio books based on this idea using different voices for the different characters. Though perhaps thats overlapping with drama.
Very interesting Chance.
You trying to justify your 29 books by any chance? *grin*
Maybe.
But really, I just don't like this notion that life ends with marriage. The Happily Ever After, though I know is a romantic notion for romantic books... sigh. I want the romance to continue.
And those of us who know married life know that it is an evolving thing.
Good to see you, Q! Sit down awhile and have a scotch!
No. There is no set limit on how many books should constitute “a series”. And yes a series can go on to long. Can an author pull it off writing one of those on and on series of yesteryear? Well sure. But should they? If the writer is enjoying the series AND it shows in their finished manuscript then I’m all for a never ending story. But when the plot starts to become respective. When its just about the paycheck. When its obvious that the writer is no longer interested in telling the story Then its time for that writer to quit Writing the damn thing.
I think that the most important aspect to writing a series is for an author to end the series before the readers lose interest. IMO you should always Leave your audience wanting more. Sure they might whine and bitch about it. But isn’t that better than having them whine and bitch about your writing?
What it comes down to Chance is a writer shouldn’t take a chance with their reputation. Be honest with yourself. Know when you need to move on. Because lets face it people, readers complaining about your writing is Not going to help your career. Leaving readers Wanting more of your stories will. My opinion.
Donna, I have theories on Pierce. I'm not a "Pierce" fan, but I am a fan of Minias. *g* And in my theory they are one and the same.
Q, I think I would enjoy that Archers series -- it's like you're growing up with all of them, so they're part of your family.
And Chance, I loved Nick and Nora -- and not just because of their delightful consumption of alcohol. LOL
Julie - I agree. Leaving the audience wanting more is key. I figure, if the Caribbean series ever finds a home, when it peters down to just the diehards, it goes on line as a pet project.
And Sin...I asked about Pierce!
I honestly don't remember Minias...don't shoot me!
I think soap operas are evidence carrying on for too long gets a little crazy. Look at what they have to do to keep it interesting, to keep finding new and bigger conflicts. Secret babies are just the beginning.
Demon possessions and incest and fathers steeling their sons' wives and vice versa. Characters marrying and divorcing multiple times (how many times has Susan Lucci's character been married?!) and lets not forget all the murders and who-done-its.
I know soaps have millions of die-hard fans, but there's a reason these things are daytime television and not primetime dramas.
Ending the book doesn't mean the characters die or stop having adventures. But how nosy do you have to be to insist you tag along for all of them? :)
it needs to grow and evolve in a dynamic way, like a real life community.
I absolutely agree with Q. One of the reasons why I like books that have a common thread.
Ah, Bo'sun, soaps are an entirely different breed of story. Sort of reality TV gone too far. Even though it isn't reality. But it's almost like it could be imagined as reality TV. With secret cameras recording the confessions... "I lust after my brother's wife and I'm going to get her!"
With the internet and reality TV...soaps really do seem to be dying off.
I'm more apt to say reality TV has been scripted to look like soaps, more than the other way round.
Sin, I didn't have a CLUE what you were talking about! LOL I'm glad Chance knew!
Sin's been sneaking the rum at work! LOL!
Bo'sun, I'm sure you're right but it's funny, in some of the urban fantasy I read, soaps become reality TV...
Isn't reality TV supposed to be without scripts? One of the reasons its' so cheap and appealing to the networks. (Like they don't spend a bazillion hours editing things to look like they end up! Puleeeese!)
Been too busy for rum at work. It's work that is making my brain this way.
LOL, sorry babe. I get confuzzled easily and see names where they aren't. lol
Who was Minias, Sin?
Not to mention that Minias took a focus object from Rache's room at the end of Outlaw Demon Wails.
Minias was Newt's "love" interest and caretaker. He was double crossing her (giving her a forget potion) and Newt found out. Minias had to run off to hide from Newt's wrath and I think Minias is really "Pierce". Minias has a charm that Rachel's mother made to make him smell like a witch. He never gave it back.
Why thank you Chance. I could use an extra large scotch right now. *grateful smile*
Donna, I'm sure that you would soon get completely absorbed into the village life of Ambridge and become addicted just like me! My favourite place is a pub called The Bull, where darts matches take place and the cricket team meets to discuss tactics.
I think that good radio drama series are closer to audio books than televised soaps. I don't watch any of the available soaps though some 'limited length' drama series have hooked me. Thinking of 'The Good Life' and 'Surgical Spirit' in particular.
Radio allows you to use your own imagination rather than having the visual aspect spoon fed to you. Though there are always exceptions of course and the TV dramatisation of Jane Austen works extremely well for me.
Its pros and cons and personal preferences as always!
Sin is a total mystery to me ... I prefer her that way! :lol:
Well, that would be interesting. Minias is a demon... you think Rach would really miss that when actually in the clutch with Pierce? I mean I love Jenks' comment about Pierce's...ahem... And Rach's comment that with male witches it really is about how they use what they have...
You're devious, to think this...
Q - You are so pure sin is a mystery to you? ;)
Have another scotch, you've been missed!
Awh, Q, that's the sweetest thing anyone has said about me in a decade. At least.
I have so many theories about that world. That's just one. There is the other that Newt is really looking for Rachel because Rachel has Newt's DNA. That's how she was fixed from the Redwood syndrome.
Reading the sex scene between "Pierce" and Rachel- she realizes they did something she's not done before or realized you could do. I think it has to do with "Pierce" being Minias and Minias being a demon and Rachel being a pseudo demon.
And if witches come from demons, demons would have the same package below just with better skills.
OK, but Pierce doesn't have much of a package and Rach saw Al's, which were impressive.
I feel like a complete and utter nerd for talking about this. My only saving grace is that Mattycakes will never read this to compare me to Hellie's HP nerdiness.
Glamor spell. It's the same sort of thing he uses to always be in his green velvet frock.
*giggle
Well, not sure I agree with you on this. But it's an interesting theory!
And sorry, everyone else. We should be doing this via e-mail and not shifting gears so drastically from the blog topic. Which was...?
I forgot.
Oh! Series! And then ended up about why marriage means death to a romantic couple.
I wonder which demon Nick has been messing with!
Kissy, kissy! I need to get out with Bonnie. Back in a bit!
Just checking in signals to me that they are settled, no real challenges…just kids, house painting…
*yawn
And now marriage means death to the romantic couple?
I don't know about marriage, but I think there are lots of reasons why a HEA doesn't mean envisioning the end of challenges. I think the fantasy of the HEA is that there will still be challenges for the couple after the HEA but that the challenges are going to be met in a different way in the future. If the characters changed, a reassuring certainty is reader's head now that they can make it; their main conflict that kept them apart has been resolved. So, in some ways, what do they have to prove...again?
Lots of crappy stuff can still happen for this same couple, but I think it's kind of hard to revisit them (in a romance) and start the cycle over again to build a new conflict to be resolved. And I think this kind of risks nullifying the feel good HEA of the first book.
I think you can still revisit characters with more realism perhaps in a story with a couple in a reunion type romances. The difference is, it's not a sequel, but jumping in because something didn't happen to resolve the conflict and give the HEA. I'm all for reunion stories and sometimes I can take reading a fractured story where the author divides things into Part 1 (with breakup) and part 2 (reunion). I can only take it with that assurance that there will be a HEA. I wouldn't want to cut it in half and search out a hypothetical first book where it ended with them breaking up. LOL
And then ended up about why marriage means death to a romantic couple.
Hey Chance, let's not air our dirty laundry in front of your Unmarried guests. You’ll scare them soooo bad, they’ll never say “I do”. Even though The Death of a romantic is a Dirty Laundry kind of problem to married people.
Yep ... Once you get married you’ll spend to much time washing cloths, not enough time taking them off.
Did I just give you all a headache?
Ah, but Julie! That's the new challenge!
Melissa - I'm not saying the new conflict has to consist of the original couple facing a separation struggle...but there are all sort of other plots to take with a couple that leave things hot and intense.
Including facing the challenge Julie is alluding to that I have no idea the particulars of!
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