One Writer's OCD
Writers are artists. On the positive, we create things. That’s kinda cool. But there are plenty of negative connotations that come along with the word “artist.” Volatile, unpredictable, flaky even. Imagination and an overactive mind have their byproducts. Chances are that all of us, as artists, see our more imaginative and unpredictable sides rear up outside our writing lives.
Me? Well, I forget stuff. A lot. I forget to call people back, forget to go to doctor’s appointments, and I forget where I left my keys. It’s horrible.
However, when it comes to my writing, there are some places where I’m a stickler for structure. I’ve mentioned that I storyboard and I’m a notorious plotter. But plotting isn’t the only place where I need structure.
I’m also obsessive about chapter and scene breaks.
When I storyboard, I try to make sure there is symmetry in my chapters, in my scenes. I plan the action so that it rises and falls throughout each mini-section the same as it does (hopefully) throughout the whole of my story.
I do the same about POVs. The story I’m writing now has five different POV characters. I twist the order in which they appear based on pace. If one section feels too long, I’ll try to break up the scenes. I try to make sure that I’m mixing them up so that secondary characters don’t disappear or don’t overtake the story.
If it works, it works great! But when it doesn’t, I’ll sit for long periods of time, trying to figure out if the pacing’s right, if I should rearrange something.
For someone who’s supposed to be unpredictable, I’m a bit neurotic.
How does everyone else feel about chapter and scene breaks? Do you plan them out or not? Do short chapters annoy you or do you not notice stuff like that? Anyone wanna share how their unpredictable artist side comes out?
Books by the Crew
28 comments:
Wow, Marnee. I got lost in y'r explanation! After reading it twice, I figured it out. I'm impressed at yer immersion in the process.
I get immersed inta the story and so have no inherent structure when it comes ta plannin'. And it shows. I spend wa-a-a-a-a-ay too much time havin' ta fix the things that I mucked up the first time through.
I really admire writers that can do this so methodically! Bravo!
But I'm tryin' ta work things out differently wit' the new project... Me attempt ta break the block, do it diff'rent!
I think we are all neurotic, Marn. Try telling people who don't write or who don't have an artist background that you've got these fully fleshed out people in your head, having conversation, telling you their story, so on and so forth.
I love scene breaks, don't usually have more than three in a chapter. Hate when I write short chapters, I think I had one that was five pages in my last book, drove me nuts, but there was no way to change it LOL. I tried, really I did.
For Hidden Beauty, I planned out the chapters by sticking a heading/title at the beginning of the chapter. That heading basically told me what needed to be accomplished during that chapter an example would be: The Surrender of Reservation or Recognition and Vulnerability. For Immortal Beloved I started with headings, then I stopped and deleted them because it was too hard to define in a character driven plot. If that makes any sense. In the newest book, Untamed Beauty I use a snippet of correspondence my heroine wrote to her wayward husband, but never mailed.
I think each story varies.
And don't get me talking about POV. I have never done more than two POVs and IB had a secondary romance told completely from the main protags viewpoints ;)
Chance - The whole have to fix it later thing is what originally got me plotting in the first place. I found the second (and third and fourth) times through I became less and less interested, so I had a worse time fixing stuff. Plotting helps me keep some of the major problems down (I hope). :)
Tiff - I think labeling chapters is a great technique. And you're right, it's different for each story. And for POV. I think first person lends to different kind of chapters as well. I think that I get annoyed when an author doesn't feel symmetrical.
When reading, I don't have any preference in chapter length or scene changes. As long as the whole flows and I can get lost in it, then it works for me.
In the little bit of writing that I've done, I've tried to start off the scene or chapter knowing what I want to accomplish with it. Then it just sort of happens. I do plot but only short bits at a time, not every detail of the story start to finish. Since I've never gotten past a first draft, I have no idea if anything I do works. LOL!
Tiff - The way you've approached each of those sounds interesting but I especially like the idea of the snippets of letters she never mailed. What a great treat that will be for the readers.
I obsess about chapter lengths and hooks as well. I have one scene right now that ends on a phenomenal hook. I desperately want that to be the end of a chapter (any chapter!) but I can't figure out how to move it. Grrr.
I really struggle with pace. A lot. I can't figure out how to see the "big picture" of the story. I'm pretty sure I need to resort to poster board and little 3x5 cards in different colors. I've tried outlines, synopsis, computer-generated note cards - it doesn't work. I'm a visual person, and I'm pretty sure I just need to take the time to create a big image of the story for me to see it. I think that's a big part of the reason I can't seem to revise my last MS. Big chunks of the middle need cut and revised, but I can't see the "big picture" to figure out where. Ugh.
Great blog Marn! And Tiff - I love the un-mailed letters too. What a great idea!
Great blog Marn!
I'm just neurotic. Period.
I don't plot ahead of time; but I'm obsessive about working things out inside of my head. Which I might concur sounds a bit like plotting but since I'm very forgetful... trust me it's not.
I'm obsessive about details. Like the way apple butter tastes fresh from the pan or right out of the refrigerator and how it's described. I like visual readings and descriptions so that's what I tend to work on the most. But since I only write in one POV, and have been trying to not write every single thing that character does but stick with the stuff that's interesting, I'm not sure if my stuff runs long. I just write until I can't write anymore that day.
Well when I was writing. There's not symmetry. Sometimes there's no flow. I just happen to be very random.
Ter - I think there definitely is something to be said for the old, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, adage. :) I agree; if the structure is working for the story while I'm reading, I don't notice it. Sometimes authors throw in short burst chapters just to shock or break it up, and I think that's cool. But I have been distracted if chapters seem too short all the way through. If there are 60 chapters in a 90K book, well, that's a little distracting.
Hal - Check out Erica Ridley's bit here about storyboarding....
http://ericawrites.blogspot.com/2007/08/all-about-story-boards.html
I love her ideas, but I'm not crafty, so I never do the poster board thing.
Oh, and if you need help, we'll plan a Marn/Hal IM session this week?
Sin - I think you're one of the most creative thinking people I know. And apple butter, huh? I don't think I've ever tried it.
Trying to find what's interesting versus what's just descriptive... wow, when you figure that out, let me know! :)
Mmm apple butter. I've never tried it fresh, but it's yummy out of the fridge :)
Someday I'll sneak some away from my parents house and ship it to you Marn. My mama makes it. Nothing like eating spoonfuls of it from the pan as it's cooking on the stove. Yum.
Sorry about the apple butter. But I was eating some while I was posting. LOL
I think I've only seen apple butter in the south and it is pretty good.
This has made me think of a scene I read in Smooth Talking Stranger last night. (Don't worry, no spoilers.) The scene is a conversation, or really a civil confrontation, between the H/H and a third party. Lisa did very good with only including the important bits of the conversation without making the reader feel like they were missing anything. There were parts where the heroine would seeth while the men talked, and though the reader doesn't get every word spoken, they don't need it for the scene to work.
To know what to include and what to leave out is a MAJOR issue in writing. And so darn hard. LOL!
Everyone and their cousin wholeheartedly agrees I'm neurotic. Guys I date kiss me on the forehead and say, "I love you, but you're a nut job." (To which I say, Pot, meet Kettle.) Hell, they don't even blame the writing. "The writing didn't make you crazy, baby. You were just born a bedbug." (To which I say, and you were just born an assh....)
I do think about pacing a lot...and I find myself reading books at times and pausing to think, "I really like what they did here. I liked this and so" and then I try to write that down somewhere so I can remember to try it. God knows I'm not going to remember it on my own. I think short and medium length chapters are good. I don't like overly long chapters (this from a person who write 20 page chapter, but whatever) because I have such a feeling of accomplishment when I get to the end of a chapter. I mean, I have to go to bed sometime or go back to work. Give me a break, people and give me a chance to break off at a regular spot and remember where I'm picking up without rereading a bunch.
I like different POVs; I prefer not to have a cast of thousands in POV. I think there is something very powerful about having limited POVs available. (And Sin, start groaning now.) Consider Harry Potter. We're basically only in his POV forever; and there are only a couple times over the course of 7 books where we're in anyone else's POV. (And believe me, God know fans would have loved some Hermione or Ron POV stuff going on...let alone other characters.)
But look what the limited POV did: we were totally immersed in Harry's set of defining parameters. His POV was the *right* one because he was the hero. So if he suspected Snape, we suspected Snape. His interpretation and what he saw was what we saw and interpreted. Therefore when everything is revealed at the end, the surprises were bigger than I think they would have been if we'd had Snape's POV or even Dumbledore's, because too much would have been revealed to us.
I think having limited POVs available can be a good thing. I don't think anyone should get themselves in a twist trying to limit it so much that they stop writing though. If you feel you need to tell something in that POV, then do it. I think whatever keeps you writing is the correct thing to be doing.
I can't even fathom not having apple butter or even tasting it.
Or pumpkin butter in the fall on homemade rolls.
Pumpkin butter?
I just bought some this weekend, as you're the second person to mention apple butter to me in the past few weeks. How random! :) But I would love a homemade version, Ms. Sin....
I think that when Rowling does other people's POV it's usually the villian and then she's very very limited. Don't you think? We don't really get Voldemort close, just sort of on the outside looking in.
I think having a different POV switches it up. It keeps it from becoming monotonous. It definitely is more complicated though. I think anyway... :)
Now that I think about, my lack of being neurotic (about writing) is probably why I don't do it enough. LOL! Curse my parents for making me so laid back.
Honey butter is the BEST.
Yes, Rowling's other POVs is very limited. We don't know what Voldy is thinking. It's the same outside POV she gave us when she started the books--because the opening chapter in the first book is sort of Dursley's POV, but not real deep. (Deeper than Voldy's, I suppose.)
Yeah, I'm not an apple butter fan. That's like smearing apple sauce on perfectly good bread. And not a pumpkin butter fan either. I think it's because of all the cinnamon. I'm not a big cinnamon fan. I like pumpkin pie, but as a whole, I don't seek out things with cinnamon. I don't even like cinnamon candles.
Sue, my yoga instructor, makes sure the cinnamon candle she lights is at teh opposite end of hte room and I get the one with the sweet pea.
Since we're talking about bread though, sorta--with all that apple butter--nothing beats regular salted butter melting on beer rolls. Yum.
Mm, I agree. But it has to be butter. None of that margarine fake shit.
Tell me you at least like cinnamon rolls.
That is pretty amazing that Rowling managed to stay predominently in one POV for the entire series and it still worked so beautifully. Isn't she working on something new or no? Not that she needs the money. LOL!
In Suspense I think it ratchets things up to get little bits from the villain's POV. And I do like extra POV options. I've toyed with having at least one scene in my WIP that would have to be from a secondary character's POV as there are only two secondary characters in the scene. But it'll all depend on how it works when I get there.
Would you as a reader been thrown off if you've been in only the POVs of the H/H and then 2/3 in you get a secondary character POV?
Sin: Of course the real thing. What the hell do you take me for? Next you'll be asking if I drink fake rum.
Terri: I can take or leave cinnamon rolls most days. I do have one occasionally. I prefer orange rolls--or caramel rolls. The cinnamon is not as overwhelming in those items.
No idea if Rowling is working on anything new. She's a writer; I'm sure she's writing something. Is she far enough along or whatever, no idea.
I don't mind extra POVs IF the story is set up that way. Eloisa James clearly likes extra POVs, and it works for her. I expect it of her. But if you were doing H/H all along, then in the middle or at the end, inserted a secondary POV, *I'd* think it was cheating, most like. If you had more POVs scenes with them--okay--but not at the end so we can know why they were jerks. I don't care to know why they were jerks. To me, they don't deserve my empathy at that point. *LOL*
However, I'm not your only reader. There are plenty of people who would want to know and would not think it's cheating. If YOU would like to know what the secondary people were thinking and think it adds to the story, then you should do it.
It's just an idea and I have no idea if it will fit, but I'll keep thinking about it. I did have an earlier scene from a secondary's character's POV but it got deleted for some reason. Hmmm...lots to think about. Eventually. LOL!
Oh right, she does do the first chapter of SS in Dursley's POV. I'd forgotten that. And at the beginning of HBP she starts in Narcissa Malfoy's POV. Hmmm.... She only does it at the beginning of stuff though, doesn't she?
And which one was it that started with the Prime Minister. The last one? I think?
I love love cinnamon rolls. And just plain rolls. And sweet rolls of any sort. In fact, carbs and I have an illicit love affair. Shhhh... don't tell anyone.
Marn - I'm a walking carb. No worries. LOL! In fact, I just finished a little pizza.
I forgot to say I love that picture. I've watched people put things in perfect alignment then asked, "OCD much?" LOL!
I thought it was funny too. :)
And pizza.... Yum....
The one author that sticks out in my head with the short chapters is Eloisa James and I find that I like it. She definitely breaks several molds with her writing style but it works for her and the stories that she tells.
As for me, I haven't gotten that far yet. I think what Terri said earlier is very true - trying to decide what to put in and leave out is pretty key. I tend to throw everything but the kitchen sink in there. I'm a really bad "tell not show" writer. I have to break myself of that habit. I would think once you get all that sorted out the flow of the chapters will just follow.
Irish - I think you're right; Eloisa's short chapters fit her style. And the tell not show thing is something that I think even the greats have to watch out for. I just read interviews with Judith McNaught last night and she was talking about how writing was very difficult for her. All I could think was, REALLY?! Her end result looks like she does it so easy. (Though she is a notorious headhopper). It never bothers me though. I don't know why.
:)
I guess it's just practice practice practice, as allt his stuff seems to be. :)
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