Thursday, September 4, 2008

Rejected Queries: Symptoms of Post-Traumatic Disorder and Other Grumblings

You know how you can hang with your writer friends, and you can bemoan about writing and publishing and all that, and they don't comment that you're a complete lazy ass? And you know how you can bemoan to some non-writer friends (and if they have uteruses), they usually commiserate and say, "In time, Hellion, in time"?

And then you have the person, who when they ask you how the writing's going, you confess you didn't write last weekend (naps, you know) and you haven't sent a query of late, because well, the other agent hasn't gotten back to you, that person gives you the sort of look you haven't seen since your fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Long caught you mooning the boys out of the girls' bathroom.

You know, the look that indicates they're not buying your excuse. And you're completely full of crap.

I mean, it almost makes one tempted not to mention your writing at all, but then they'll ask, "What'd you do this weekend?" and if you respond, "Nothin'", which is a legitimate answer (and activity, I might add), you realize that was the wrong answer as well. Especially when they rattle back their list of activities, and you sarcastically wonder when they're going to work in that missionary trip to Uganda while they're at it. (I mean, really, as if escapism and napping is a crime.)

Anyway, so admittedly I started querying of late, not because I've revised my current finished WIP and therefore this is actually the next step; but because I wanted to be able to report to This Person, when asked, and say, "Yep, I sent off X number of queries this week, and got back X number of rejections." (Unfortunately since they have that Mrs. Long personality, it will probably not impress them, but I'll give it a shot. I have a little folder of my rejection letters, numbered, with a little grid where I made careful little marks of how many queries I've sent out this week.)

Not that I send out shot-gunned queries, mind. They're all personalized. And sent at completely different times. Some a full hour apart.

I have been amazed at how quickly I've gotten some responses back, being that most websites will reassure you it can take 4-6 weeks for them to respond to your query. And I do check the agents I'm sending to, and I'm not sending my novel of ritual Satanism to Christian publishing or anything. (I mean, I'm a procrastinator, but I have thought this through a little.)

The rejections have been really nice, which I consider a step up from some of the contest feedback I've received. (Once, a judge wrote down scripture notations about how my story would never, ever work, and marked 0's wherever she could. Though technically my grammar was relatively sound, and I'd spelled my own name right. They give you 10 points off the bat for that sort of thing. But I got 0's for things like "likeable hero"--with red-inked comments of "He's the DEVIL!", as if I'd forgotten who I'd made my main character. And the 2nd judge was all gushy about the same exact story--so that was really ironic. I guess they didn't go to the same church.)

Still, it's a REJECTION. I can't really feel good about it.

To keep my sulking funk in perspective, my writer friends immediately stepped up and sent their favorite rejection stories. The best of the lot was the rejection that said, "I didn't like your writing, and I shared it with everyone here, and nobody else liked it either." Ouch. Okay, so I can't complain.

Still I'm having school PE flashbacks where I'm being picked last for kickball, and some of the people being picked ahead of me are obvious ("Well, clearly, she's going to go with the brilliant, literary historical writer who finalled in her last five contests...") and some are not so obvious ("Oh, come on! My story is better than that! I didn't have a single secret alien baby! What do you mean, secret alien babies are the new rage? Are you kidding?")

Others call it a crapshoot. I'm not a fan of Vegas either, even if my current WIP is based in it. Okay, I have nothing against Vegas; I'm just not a gambler. Any time I've actually won a scratch off ticket, I usually remember the other 10 tickets I bought that did nothing--so this $2 win means I'm negative 8 dollars.

Now others will Pollyanna all over my sulk: "Hellion, at least you're sending queries. That means you have a finished WIP, right?" Yes. "And you have a query." Apparently not an interesting one. "And you're submitting, so you're trying." This is like when the losing soccer team gets a trophy for showing up to the games. Yeah, that makes me feel better. No, wait, where's my trophy? Do I have to make one out of paper-mache from my rejection letters? Hey, now there's an idea of what I can do on my weekends between naps.

What's your worst rejection letter? What's your record number of queries sent in a single day? Any ideas what creative truths I can tell This Person the next time I'm asked what I did with my weekend? And for non-writers (i.e. non-gluttons for punishment), any horror flashbacks for being picked dead last? Anyone want to help me make my paper-mache Rejection Trophy?

41 comments:

Maggie Robinson said...

I got one once that said I'd been in the "maybe" pile, but it turned out to be "maybe not." But I've gotten one rejection that really helped ne to strengthen the story, and another who said that while she didn't buy the premise, she thought it was going to sell anyway. So we'll see. I've actually not queried in huge droves, maybe four or five agents at a time.

And now I have the opportunity to be rejected by EDITORS, which will hurt worse, LOL. Although last month I went to hear 3 pubbed writers, and they all said it was harder to get an agent than a book contract. Go figure.

Marnee Jo said...

I haven't tried to query yet. HBG isn't ready yet. Still revising. But I'm sure my day will come.

I have good break up stories though.... I thought the guy who told me that "being in a relationship with you has made me not want to be in a relationship" (yes that's a direct quote) was particularly creative. That's still my best rejection.

I think you're doing great, Hellion.

Tiffany said...

YAY Hellion on sending out queries! BOO to rejections. I've gotten droves of those... I think I was somewhere in the 60's when I finally gave up on ITN. LOL! I queried EVERYONE that took Para. Had a few requests, but in the end all rejects. lol And only two personalized rejections, the rest were form rejects, including the requests that were eventually rejected. Jeeze, how many more times can I say reject? LOL

I have a feeling Hidden Beauty will do mucho better than my paras. :) I'll let you know.

And for contests... yup, it's all a crap shot! Every contest (except one obviously) I've gotten a really, really high mark, right beside a really low mark. I'm taking this as a good sign, especially when ppl are loving a particular aspect or just out right hating what someone else loves. My favourite negative comment so far.... Jinan is so Cliché and unoriginal... That made me LOL Because I've read as much as I can in the way of harem books, and Jinan is NOTHING like any other book. Just gotta take these things with a grain of salt, and laugh off the negative!

Marnee Jo said...

Tiff - good luck with HB! I have my fingers crossed for you!

Kathy said...

Interesting post, Hellion. I'm always surprised at how non-writer friends view what I do with my time. Makes me feel like an alien baby.

Contests are different animals. Some judges just don't get what you've written. For instance, if an historical writer enters the same contest, he/she can't judge historical. If that's what they are familiar with and what they like to read, they aren't going to get the secret alien baby in a Sci/Fantasy and they may not get the Billionaire Playboy in a HQN Presents.

The more I submit, the thicker my skin gets. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. :-D

Quantum said...

I suspect that agents and editors are programmed to reject new authors by default. They are swamped with submissions and know that only 5% will make the grade. They have limited time so that they have to skimp and the dice are heavily loaded against you.

My theory could be tested by getting a well known author to submit your work in their name saying that they were experimenting with a new style. I'll bet the results would be interesting!

The remedy is to put yourself in the shoes of an editor and write in a style to impress. This means having a prologue or introduction that sizzles with your best ideas and written in that amazing style that captivates us all with short pieces. Likewise for the first chapter and anything else that you think might be studied closely, given that the guy is only going to spend 30 mins reading it.

In other words learn to play the system.

As you know I have no experience in this area but be assured that I have vast practical experience in the ways of the world. *g*

I believe in you Hellion!

Sin said...

I actually cowered underneath the desk when you mentioned Mrs. Long. Do you know she actually hit my knuckles with that ball breaker ruler she had because I couldn't recite this idiotic poem by heart? She made me stay in all recess because of it.

But I did love that woman. She taught me how to be strong and work hard. I wish more teachers were like that even though I thought SHE was the devil.

Honestly, I have no room to belittle anything anyone does when I never write myself.

You could tell "this person" (which I know if NOT me. Stop looking this way Terri. It's not me.) that you were too busy having a stripper orgy down at the Vu and used the dry bar as your personal jello shot station. Or you can just tell her it's none of her damn business and keep her nose where it belongs.

Hellion said...

Ouch, Maggie! Maybe not pile? *LOL* That's awful! I mean, part of you would want to laugh and go, "Who SAYS that?", not taking it seriously, but at the same time...

That's funny about it's harder to get an agent than a book contract. *LOL* I wonder if that's true. I want to believe it.

Hellion said...

Wow, Marnee, what a rejection! I think that might beat my "I'm looking for a love like the Titanic and you're not it" break up line.

Don't worry, you'll be doing the query thing soon. (We're all here to help with the letter too, if you need it. Though since mine is not real popular yet, I might not be the best resource. *LOL*) Historicals are hot...you'll be great!

Hellion said...

Tiff, thank you! (And Jinan is not cliche. *LOL* I'm with you in the "it's funny how one person HATES it and another LOVES it" thing. You do feel you're doing something right to encite such passion, even if you don't win the contest. Means your voice is distinctive. Voice is in the top five things you need in your writing, IMO, right after: persistence, luck, and talent. I imagine #5 is "Great Hook" (either GH beginning or ending, or preferably both)...

Hellion said...

Q, I agree. I've read/heard agents say that they're basically looking for a reason to reject the story...they just don't have the time to take on projects that would require even more work than the average accepted project. (Play the system, eh? I bet I could learn some good poker or blackjack moves from you, couldn't I?)

Hellion said...

Hi Kathy! (Now I'm curious how you spend your free time. *LOL*) My non-writer friends don't comment on my napping. They've known me too long; and frankly they've all woken the sleepy Hellion with little sleep and faced the cranky wrath--so they're more apt to say, "Oh, I'm sure you NEEDED it." One of my English professors used to tell me he only needed 4 hours of sleep a night. He looked it too--and he was a perpetual chainsmoker, so I think I'm going to continue with my naps.

You make a good point about contest judges. In my local chapter, they were always digging for judges for our annual contest, wanting published authors...and it seems most of them wrote historicals, but they'd fill in for some of the contemporary spots and so forth. And if you write humorous, but the person reading you is someone who write more dramatically/seriously, they probably won't find your Will Ferell-esque love comedy as funny as your crit partners did. (After all, most of my crit partners also laugh at Will Ferrell movies.)

And love the Nietzsche quote!

Hellion said...

Sin, *I* actually had Mrs. Proctor. (I imagine this was done because I was so QUIET in 4th grade and a cowering whipped puppy of a child that Mrs. Wilhite said, "Mrs. Long will give the child a heart-attack. She'll do better with Lynn." I was thinking of YOU when I wrote the mooning comment. *LOL*)

But if I hadn't had Mrs. Proctor, I probably wouldn't be a writer today. She gave us our first journaling assignments and I fell completely in love with writing. And writing poems...and drawing pictures for my poems. I swear if my entire 5th grade experience could have been about that, it would have been bliss. But then we had to do math...

What poem? Do you remember the title of it? Or a line from it?

I know you've got a lot of other plates spinning right now. I know writing is our "breath" but sometimes you have to hold your breath and swim through a tunnel to get back to a place where you can breathe again. (Okay, not a good analogy...but everything I write can't be intelligent. Get over it.)

It's not Terri either. *LOL* She told me to focus on my apartment & job hunting plates. I haven't discussed all my plates with This Person yet. I'm very much a person who must discuss all options to death before taking action; but This Person doesn't operate that way: action is better. So I get the plates proactively spinning--THEN I mention them. I don't mention I got plates. We all got plates.

But I like how you THINK. The bar thing would be a good story. I knew I could count on you.

haleigh said...

I'm with Marnee - still revising so no queries to send out yet. Though I've been thinking (panicking is probably a more accurate word) about what exactly could go in my query letter.

I have, however, been submitting short flash-fiction pieces to literary magazines (all of which have been rejected - woo hoo!). Ironically, the editors had the exact opposite reaction to my critique group each time (what the group loved, the editors said was tired, what the group thought was dumb, the editors liked, just not enough to publish).

I read on a writer's list (and I quote): "It all comes down to luck. Saying you succeeded as a writer because of skill and perseverance is the worst kind of arrogance."

That really bothered me when I read it - I want to think that with perseverance and growth, anyone can succeed as a writer. I hate the thought that whole writing careers could be gained or lost on the crap-shoot of luck, but the more I study the publishing businesses, the more I wonder.

Great topic Hellion!

Janga said...

Hellion, you are way ahead of mr because I haven't even written a query letter yet. Like Marnee, I am in revision mode.

I have had rejection for poems and articles submitted. The most recent sort-of rejection (a request for a rewrite) had the kind of comments on thesis and support that one usually directs at undergrad compositions. I chose not to rewrite. I had a thesis, thank you very much! It was probably a good experience for me. Now I know how my students felt. :)

I have never recived a form rejection, so there was always something positive I could find comfort in. My favorite rejection was for a poem. The editor wrote "I really loved . . ." and quoted a line from the poem. I always wondered if she hated every other line, particularly since she did not ask me to submit other poems. LOL! (Although I did not laugh at the time.)

Hellion said...

Hal, that is a depressing quote! But yeah, saying it was all talent is probably pretty arrogant. I think most of writing can be learned. My non-writer friends are good writers, in my opinion, and if they just felt about writing like I did, they'd do great at it...but it's not their passion, so I understand. Maybe you need more of a passion for writing than talent?

I don't think saying it was all preseverance is arrogant, necessarily, but maybe I haven't been doing this long enough. Maybe they're referring to the "lucky" low percentage of writers who submit and get a contract practically with no "suffering". Those stories are AWESOME, but they're not exactly inspiring when you're NOT in that category. *LOL*

And the short-story stuff sounds even MORE frustrating! *LOL* I'll stick with novels, I think. Though publishing stories is a great stepping stone...so more power to you when you succeed at it! I'm sure you will! Then you can use those accomplishments in your query letters!

Sin said...

I had Proctor too. I think maybe my third grade year. I kissed a boy in her class too. In the closet. It was very scandlous.

Sin said...

I did kiss a boy in the boys bathroom and Mrs Long hauled me out by my ear and took me to the principal. Did you know my mother had Mrs Long too? Then I had to hear all about how my mother was the same way and it didn't look like the apple fell too far from the tree. LMAO

Sin said...

Hm. I've been sitting here thinking about that poem. It was fairly long about a ship and a long lost love and maybe a seagull. I can't remember the author. I might google it and see if I can come up with it. I think I'd know it if I saw it.

Mrs. Long was a taskmaster. She also made us study for the spelling bee by pulling out the dictionary and just reading off words and making us spell them regardless of what they were.

Hellion said...

Janga, I think publishing poetry is the hardest! I mean, writing is subjective, but I think poetry is the most subjective of the subjective.

It's so hard to write something lyrical yet sorta pithy, but not be cliched about it. (And then there is my problem that I want to rhyme all my stuff!) And if titles for historicals are overripe with standard "words"--I had a friend who published poetry who was like, "Yeah, using the word 'soul' in a poem is practially a kiss of death." Overused. Which is practically everything I've ever written in poetic format.

Basically my poetry is written by my inner 13-year-old. Which understandably is the kind of poetry that should never, ever be published.

ANYWAY, I remember my English classes...and I probably only ever liked about 10% of all the poems we read. (And usually they had to be about love or sex. Go figure.) And I'm nobody. I imagine publishers are a lot more picky than even I am. Chilling, but true.

The wondering if she liked ONLY that line makes me laugh. That's totally what I would have wondered!

Hellion said...

Both my brother and sister (25 & 15 years older than me respectively, non-Hellion-trivia readers), so this woman was like 103 by the time we got to her. I mean, I think she came to the school looking a 103 when she started, taught for 60 years, then finally retired, still looking 103. So my siblings were jealous I didn't have the Taskmaster. *LOL*

I am DYING at the apple far from the tree comment. Too hysterical! And I'm completely unsurprised about the closet. You're very scandalous. It's my favorite thing about you.

Julie said...

Hmm maybe there was something “odd” in that organic coffee I drank this morning. I don’t know… butt using the words “mooning” and “crap” in almost the same sentence just sort of sets off the “giggles”. Oh…oh…I am laughing so hard it hurts. You Sadist you.
Bad hellion
And Bad Christians! How Unchristian of you!
“Everyone deserves a chance at Redemption. Even the Devil. Hello? That’s like ohmygawd, like basic Christian values.” Said the little kitten as she stretched and yawned… revealing a mouthful of pretty, pointy, sharp teeth.
* Julie looks up from her keyboard with an innocent “what? I didn’t do nothing look”* Where was I? Oh yah…
Personally Hellion, I think that you should be sending your manuscript to Christian publishing houses. Market it as “an uplifting tale of hope and redemption in which love conquers all… even Eternal Damnation”. Yep, I can smell the sweet smell success & money & a hot book deal already… or is that odor … fire & brimstone? Gosh, sometimes it issss hard to tell the difference between Hope & Redemption and Eternal Damnation. Not that it matters in this case, Hellion. Because Either way … writing a story about The Devil is gonna make you hot, Hot, HOT!
LOL :)

Julie said...

And Sin darlin' I’d never be one to kiss & tell. But I believe that you answered your own question. And proved my theory of
“There ain't no point in saying "I don't" when… “

Sin said...

Damn. I forgot you'd see that comment.

Rats.

Damnation.

Hellfire and begonia water.

Marnee Jo said...

Julie, love - when are you publishing your first book. I would love to read an entire tome of your insight. LOL!!

Hellion said...

Julie, *LOL* True, I'm already going to hell in a Handbasket, why not add some ribbons by sending my Lucifer book to the Christian publishing houses? If anything, the rejection letters should be even FUNNIER.

My favorite Mark Twain quotation is, as roughly follows: Who prays for Satan? Who in 2000 years has prayed for the one sinner who needs it the most?

terrio said...

You guys are on point today. Especially Julie. Too funny.

I have no rejections. Wait, I have one. It was a simple email rejection for a short story I submitted for a Samhain anthology. It was short and sweet. No reason given but nothing hurtful said.

And I believe it's nearly impossible to get an agent these days. Even though five of my friends recently aquired representation. One author whose first book hits shelves in less than a month is still getting rejected by agents. WTF?!

Hellion said...

Yeah, that's what I loved about Leslie Langtry's call story. She got the offer to publish, then while calling all her friends to celebrate, got a rejection email from an agent who said Gin Bombay was an unlikeable character that would never be published. I think that's sorta funny, and point proven that "it just takes one; it's subjective."

ReneeLynnScott said...

I have one rejection letter for a short story. It wasn't bad, they actually invited me to resubmit once I made a few changes. Those changes never got made due to overwhelming life changes in our household.

Besides the short story, I've only sent out one query letter, but that letter was just legalistics since the partial had been requested from a pitch. That was almost a year ago and still no rejection letter. Which is probably a good thing, since I was far from ready.

I've finished revisions, now I'm doing some touch up and polish. Hoping to have those done by Sunday evening. Then it's on to the query letter. *shivers*

I've been a finalist in less than half of the contests I've entered. My scores haven't been to terrible, minus the occasional low baller. In the last contest I was honored to have the low baller's highest score. I had intended on not entering any more contests. I've been fairly picky about those I've entered, but there's one last one I'm contemplating. I'm just so nervous about entering it. This one isn't about the feedback, like all the others, it's about the final judge and if I don't final, then the contest was a wash.

As far as what to say to your friend, I'm not sure. What I do know is that writing an email isn't the same as writing a story. Writing a sentence or two isn't the same as writing a 100k book. Editing a college paper is no where near the challenge as revising and perfecting the book of your heart.

Just because I'm not typing on the keyboard doesn't mean I'm not writing. I'm always hashing out a scene, thinking of ways to tightening, tossing scenarios around like a ship on an ocean. Yes, even after the book is complete. Even last night I made some mega changes to chapter 3, which has been set in stone for over a year.

Reading your blog was like visiting the principles office after my own antics. Uncomfortable and chastising. Not that you meant it that way, but I felt it. I need to get off my arse and quit procrastinating. Send out those queries, but I'm too damn scared!

Renee

ReneeLynnScott said...

Oh, Sin, was it the Rime of the Ancient Mariner? I made my oldest memorize that one about 6th grade.

Renee

terrio said...

Renee - I say beat the fear. That's a great story and it deserves to be seen!

Hellion said...

Renee, I'm glad I'm not the only one in the principal's office. (Though that opens up a whole line of jokes about spanking that I should probably avoid...) I'm not chastising you--I'm mocking myself (and my Always-Occupied-With-a-Noble-Activity Friend). It's not like This Person *says* anything, but it's the silence that's damning, if you know what I mean. And I have a Puritan guilt complex. I could be reading into the silence (I read into everything else, why not?)--but if I'm feeling guilty, clearly I know I'm a slacker and I need to press on. In a more active way. You know, in a butt-in-chair, hands-on-keyboard sort of action.

It's not bad to be called on it. We better get cracking. We don't have forever, you know. Just don't get too overwhelmed by revisions and your own naysaying thoughts--it WILL happen. We just have to actually be DOING it. *LOL* That's helps immensely!

ReneeLynnScott said...

You just keep telling yourself that. It will happen. I for one love the whole idea of your story. I think it's wonderful!

Renee

Gillian said...

I'll second that. I think the entire idea is amazing. :)

I'm deep into figuring out and writing my second, but I'm not querying until I can say "yes" if they say "do you have anything else?" without having a panic attack. ;)

Sin said...

Renee I just looked and it was! We had to memorize a section of the poem to pass this test but we had to read the whole thing. Wow! I can't believe you found it! And I can't believe you made your oldest memorize it!

Julie said...

Oh! I love the Mark Twain quote!
Here are some “creative truths”, Hellion.
Get some sunglasses and a hat like John Belushi wore in the Blues Brothers. Put them on the next time The Person asks what you’re up to & tell em you’re “on A Mission From God.” If you get caught taking a nap say that you were “meditating’’ or “seeking spiritual enlightenment”. And my personal fav excuse to use when someone asks you what you did all weekend? Tell them that you were on a “retreat”. Which isn’t a lie.
Nope
Nobody said that you had to say what you were retreating from, right? And technically do nothing all weekend Is A Retreat… from life… work… your WIP… having school PE flashbacks … teasing Sin...

Julie said...

Begonia water?
Oh Sin! That issss so sweet. And I’m sure that you had a good reason for kissing those boys… like they needed mouth to mouth resuscitation? Cuz your sweet like that. And any one who would wear maryjane wingtips has gotta be real sweet… and innocent like … like… like A Virgin… Touched for the very first time… like A Vir-err-er-er-gin…

Julie said...

Poor Sin. She’s not used to being bugged. Especially being “bugged” by a short lil bugger like me. Gosh, It’s kinda like having a flea infestation ain’t it, Sin.

Julie said...

And Finally

Marnee Jo Said: Julie, love - when are you publishing your first book.
Julie said: Gosh, I don’t know Marnee Jo. What genre would I be published under? It wouldn’t be Historicals. Or Regency. Maybe under Paranormals. They could have a new subgenre just for me…
They could call it ap-Para-ently-not-quite-Normal !

Marnee Jo said...

LOL!!

brainwave said...

You've remarked on a few unique topics in this post. Mind if I ask for some clarification on the seperate issues?