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Love & Marriage: How's a Single Girl to Research?
Lately I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about Lucifer and his cheeky red-headed stripper. Both of whom are minor characters in my current WIP. Key word: minor.
I’m supposed to be writing about Adam & Eve. Yet every time I go to sit and write about them, I stare at my screen, going, “How do you write a married/divorced couple?” I mean, talk about research deficient. Las Vegas is nothing compared to the deficit of knowledge I have on marriage. My problem is I’m certain I could write about a stripper with more authority than I could a wife.
I’ve never been married, engaged, or even dated for a long period of time. Of late, my dates have been one-timers, with a sprinkling of engagements that were good. Anomalies, I call those. Therefore, I don’t exactly sit around imagining my life if I was married because the idea seems…well…science fiction. The collection of the proposals I have received in my short life have been from married men. Men married to other women, just so we’re clear. More than one, in case the plural of “men” was lost on everyone.
So you might surmise, I don’t have a lot of faith, understanding, or much more than fearful respect for Matrimony. And I know my limitations: I know I’d make a better stripper than a wife. I can take off my clothes, and sometimes I can even keep my balance while doing it. But a wife? What does a wife do again?
I just can’t imagine marriage. (And if you’ll notice: a lot of fairy tales don’t seem to imagine it either because there is never information about what happens to the couple after they’re married.) Just what exactly is the expectation? With a stripper, you expect to see a naked girl. With a wife, well, I suspect the expectation is something similar…but it doesn’t seem as well defined. I like things well-defined. Abs, the food in the Chinese buffet line, lots of things. I like to know what I’m getting into.
So here I am. Trying to write a story about Eve, the original wife. Talk about writing fiction if I’m writing from the perspective of a woman who’d lived with one guy for over fifty years. Bore his children. Made love with him, fought with him…and well, all those things you do in marriage. Whatever those are. She probably peed right in front of him. (Who does that?)
And then there is this other problem: Eve is an optimist.
If you’ve met me, virtual or otherwise, you know I’m by no means a natural optimist. Or even a well-learned optimist. I try, again and again I try, but optimism in my brain is a lot like “light” in Terry Prachett’s world: No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it. That's just the way I roll.
So here I have a character I need to channel who’s a complete 180 from me. I’m at a loss. I was so utterly spoiled to writing from first person perspective of a character who, if she wasn’t me, was my twin. Names and circumstances somewhat changed to protect the guilty and all that. In fact, I’m dawdling on the damned revisions for GOGU so I don’t have to let go of the one character I know I can write well. (Currently on chapter 20; only four more to go!)
So, what do I do? I don’t exactly want to write a string of books where all the heroines are cynical, neurotic, twitchy pessimists and all the heroes are charming, dangerous, and great in bed. Okay, I do want all my heroes to be rather charming, dangerous, and great in bed. But I’ve got to vary up the heroines. I can do this. Surely. Besides, there is every hope that if I write an optimistic heroine, some of her will rub off on me.
So I need to do some research on marriage, I suppose. [FYI: the first crew member who suggests I go get married will be marooned without any rum rations.] I’m going to try for something less combat-intensive and hunt for some good marriage stories: but I don’t want sappy ones. I want marriage stories.
Like one of my favorite married couples got into a fight about money (God, do couples fight about money!), and she was taking too long on her long-distance phone call. She hung up, they fought, then he went to bed while she finished up the dishes. Mistake. Still pissed, she eyed the cookie jar and knew he would be back in the middle of the night to get a cookie. She eyed the bedroom door, then the cookie jar—then promptly squirt Palmolive all over the cookies. She went to bed, justice served. Days pass; and not a word from him. She knew he must know, but he acted like everything was fine. Not a care in the world. Then three days later, after she thought the moment had passed, she took a bite of her sandwich at lunch (he frequently packed it for her—again, saving money), just as her husband called. She couldn’t spit it out fast enough. Paybacks are hell. This is my Adam & Eve couple. I mean, these two love each other to death—but they’re so mean. I love it. I may have to do a Jane Goodall. I wonder if they’d mind….
Please tell me your best ANNOYING marriage story, for the sake of my writing research. And just what is a wife supposed to do anyway? I mean, I see that 50s Handbook, but that was clearly written by a crack addict. Is it me, or does it seem like marriage is just a daily test in practicing not killing someone else who is completely neurotic?
And how do you write characters who aren't like you at all? I mean, I know fiction writing is lying, but I'm not a very good liar. I'm a great exaggerator, but a poor liar. All my lies are truths in masquerade...but how do you write a lie when you have no truth to base it on?
Books by the Crew
38 comments:
Heck, I haven't caught up with yesterday yet!
You are an awesome crew, and If Cathy and Sin should write a romantic mystery, remember that I'm here, an admiring captive reader.
I love that you would channel with me Sin! In Quantum theory we call it 'tunnelling' and my, that was the loveliest wave function I ever saw!
Don't worry about my safety, I instinctively duck when those eyelashes move. :D
OK I've caught up with today.
Hellion, you're at your most brilliant when you muse over character probs. I wasn't LOLing but I was riveted! Perhaps GOD had this problem when he designed woman :wink:
I think that EVE was the source of original sin....umm no I'm not going there.
Think I will leave the advice to the admirable pirate wives/ex wives. I can't wait to learn how you resolve this though! Especially if its published. :lol:
I was LOLing at so much of that! You're hysterical, Hellion. But you're also insightful. I have no clue how to write a married couple because, like you, I have no experiencce with marriage. I think the palmolive couple would be worth a little Jane Goodalling though.:)
My parents have been married for about thirty-eight years(don't hold me to that. It may be longer as I don't keep up with it all that well). You would think that based on the longevity of their union that I would have something decent to contribute but alas no. I think, though, that good couples have fights and then get over it after a few 'I'm sorrys'get bandied about. Where as bad couples hide from their problems with silence or fight and never apologize. Don't know if there's any actual truth to that, though. But it doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong. I don't expect marriage- it sounds too hard.lol.
Make that *whereas
Married. Forever. And keep in mind I was so p*ssed off at my husband one night I got up and started to write about a "perfect" man. Thus was my writing career born, all because John was being John. I guess I'll have to keep him as kind of an anti-muse.
That said, I'm not convinced monogamy is a natural state. I think we need different partners for different phases in our lives. If Eve's been married 50 years, she's in her cabana boy/hot fireman phase.
I once got a toolbox for my birthday.
THAT was annoying.
Wow, holy huge question.
I have only been married a few years (basically a newlywed amongst you more seasoned pros).
Here's something, hear me out.... I despised being pregnant. I wasn't one of those "mother earth" preggo ladies who are all in touch with their belly and stuff. I had every possible side effect of pregnancy, it was horrible. I wanted my feet back.
I go into labor, I push three hours and end up in a C-section 'cause my DS has a ginormous head.
In the operating room after they yanked that kid out of my belly, my darling DH is sitting beside me, all blissed out, and they bring the baby over for me to kiss and he turns to me and goes, "look he has my ears; he must be my kid."
I swear, if they didn't have me strapped and fastened to that table, I would have beat his ridiculous backside into next Thursday.
JK - good grief a toolbox? I swear, men don't use their godgiving brainstuffs. Sheesh.... I sometimes wonder if they stand in the store and go, "well, if it were my birthday, I would love a toolbox." Then with some advanced calculus to proof out that theorem, it's on the credit card bill.
*worked for him, not at him. yikes.
I do remember when my dad was annoyed at a subcontractor who worked at him. He was on the phone talking to the guy right in front of us kids, dropping the f-bomb like it could stand in for any old noun, verb, or adjective.
My mom doesn't say anything to him and after he gets off the phone, she keeps serving dinner and overseeing everything and says to him in front of us, "do you want some f*king dinner, because I f*ing made it for you, but if you don't, well, what the F, I was f*king making dinner anyway. Frankly, I don't give a flying F if you eat it or not."
My dad never used the F word in front of us ever again. That's some good husband/wife psychology right there.
OMG, Marnee that F bomb story is hilarious!!!!
Still cracks me up! My dad was very rough around the edges and my mom is sort of the opposite: reserved and quiet. Hearing her drop the F bomb that day shocked the entire family. LOL!!
Okay, this is cracking me up. As the only EX here, I'd love to chime in. LOL! I remember the stupid fights. One night we argued because he left the lid off the pan of Hamburger Helper so when I wanted seconds, the stuff was dry. We fought all the time about how to load the dishwasher. Then there was his inability to take out the garbage. Even when I was 8 mos pregnant. Lucky for me, I was on the radio everyday so I got to bitch about all these things to 30K people. LOL!
But to be fair, I have since learned that lots of this was my tight ass fault. It shouldn't have mattered if he loaded the dishwasher *exactly* how I would load it. He loaded it and the stuff was clean and that's enough. Though I'm not about to let him off the hook for the garbage.
Then there are those times when something happens at work, and your first thought is to call and tell him. Because he's your best friend even if he drives you crazy. I remember still having that urge to call him and tell him things even after the divorce. There's the feeling of being a team, of being partners like you'd see police partners portrayed on television. You sort of have each other's backs.
My parents have been married for nearly 41 years and when I think about how long they've had it rough, I'm sort of proud that neither of them walked away. My dad doesn't have a lot of education which has been a bit, shall we say detrimental to their financial possibilities. But my mother has always stuck with him. Some of that is probably because my mom is lazy, but I'd like to think that they just love each other that much.
Man, I need to stop rambling.
BTW - The Captain has a bit of shore leave today so Marn and I will be keeping the fun going without her. Though I'm positive she'll be checking back for all the answers to her questions, so keep them coming!
Hellion, I think there is some truth to the old adage that the observer sees more of the game. So even though you have never been married, you probably know more about marriage than you think you do just from having watched family and friends.
I think I read somewhere that money fights break up more marriages than infidelity. I just thought I would throw that in. :)
My #2 nephew, who is in the process of divorce now, said something to me when he first told me that he and his wife were divorcing: "This is not what I thought marriage would be." I think the distance he was talking about between romanticized view and reality is something all couples have to deal with. I'm sure that my nephew's wife had trouble reconciling the boyfriend who spelled out "I Love you" in rose petals for her birthday and took her to the beach where they met to propose was the same guy who worked past dinner several nights a week and folded towels the wrong way when he took them out of the dryer. And he's still wondering how the girl who thought he was Mr. Wonderful transformed into the woman who thinks he's Mr. Can't Get Much of Anything Right.
Some couples deal with reality; many can't. I bet even Adam & Eve dealt with that problem. Just look at what God says in Genesis about that one person deal. Two people with different personalities, different needs, different hangups becoming one? How idealized is that?
Another observation from a fellow observer. The lasting marriages I know best share at least one characteristic; the partners believe that love endures but accept that being "in love" fluctuates.Passion is a lot more fun than enduring. Isn't that one of the reasons we are all hooked on romance?
I have a couple of stories that show the progression of our lives together.
When we were first married I got sick. I mean really sick - congested, hacking up a lung, 103 degree fever sick. He comes home from work, looks at me and says "Hey, is it okay that I invited Joe over to play video games tonight? We'll be real quiet and play downstairs so we don't bother you." I'm devastated because my idea of marriage/taking care of each other has just flown out the window. Plus I'm hopped up on decongestants and not thinking clearly. My insecure placating self says "Sure, I'll be okay. Go ahead."
Two hours later I knock over a chair trying to make my way to the bathroom cause I'm so weak I can't stand. DH comes racing upstairs screaming "Are you okay? What happened? I heard a crash." I'm sitting on the floor in the hallway, crying, coughing and moaning "I want to go home. Take me back to my mom. She'll take care of me." He was a little rattled. Sent Joe packing and spent the rest of the night reassuring me that I was home and he could do a better job taking care of me than my mom.
Shoot ahead 15 years. Last year I woke up with a headache. It was a pretty bad one. I get migraines sometimes. He immediately took the day off work, got the kids off to school and took me to urgent care. That's not even the best part. When we get in to see the doctor he asks him if there is a way to check for brain tumors! I dropped my jaw. I ended up having a CAT scan that day. No brain tumors, just a massive sinus infection.
Yes, currently pirating broadwidth as we speak.
And about to go off to breakfast...so this might be the only one for the day. LOVING the stories! Keep them coming! Annoying gifts; annoying comments--OMG MARNEE!; annoying lack of knowledge about what a pan lid is for! And good point about having each other's backs...that'll be useful...I can see the scenes spinning in my head now!
Speaking of things you should NEVER say to a woman in labor, one of my coworkers told her labor story. And she was pushing, and her husband kept going down to the "business end" to look. Which annoyed her because she wanted him at her end, holding her hand, being HELPFUL. (Men.) Anyhoozle, she gets done with one really big contraction, and he comes back and he says, "OMG, you have an angry asshole. It looks just like this." And he make an angry puckery motion with his mouth.
I do not know how those two stay married. That's one of the FUN stories. (These are not the Palmolive people. *LOL* THOUGH the Palmolive people do have another story. The wife's best friend bought her an IPOD secretly, and called the husband to tell him about it--to get him to download music for the wife, as a surprise. He was very excited: after all it was an ipod he didn't have to pay for. The wife starts nagging him: WHY is she calling you? She's MY best friend...and they get into a fight about it. A week or so later, she gets her ipod. What music is on it? Gregorian CHANTS and all sorts of weirdo crap music that the wife never would listen to in a million years. But now she knew what he'd been up to. *LOL*)
Janga: He couldn't fold the towels right? Hello, where was the brownie for taking the towels out of the dryer and making an EFFORT to fold them? Seriously. Yeah, there is a difference between romance and living with someone. Hmmm. Maybe I should have some rose petals in the garden of eden. *LOL* Nothing like that "taking me for granted" thing to make both sides sulk forever.
Irish: Look at that! Men can learn! Awww...that's just sweet, that is. At least he came up to check on you when he heard the crash. I know a couple husbands who would have thought you were being overly dramatic. *grins*
I don't want to assume the age of the couple Janga describes, but I'm guessing they might have been in their 20s? I make this assumption only because her story gave me deja vu. LOL! This is a major reason I think people shouldn't be able to marry until they are 30.
Then again, you'd have to go through this silly stuff to realize the little things aren't the big things and mature into a better person. So maybe that shoots my theory in the butt. Dang.
I remember when I was married for about a year (though we'd been living together for more than two), a friend called and told me she married some Marine she'd only known for a few weeks. She thought I would be happy for her, but I knew she had no idea what she had done. To her, it was all about being married. A game and she won the big stuffed animal on the top shelf. But she didn't realize the work involved and how serious it really is. I hate to be the buzz kill, but marriage is SERIOUS. Lots of people don't realize that.
I was being overly dramatic, Hellion! I was a new bride, sick with a fever and drugged. The DH also discovered through the years that happens to be the time when I'm not as tactful and a bit more outspoken and honest! LOL
I think Janga kind of hit on it. Romantic love and actual love are two different things. I think maybe the reality of that is kind of hard to deal with for some.
I was told 2 very important things before I got married. The first being, love is a decision not a feeling. The second being, opposites attract so we can learn from one another. If we learn and compromise we have a happy marriage, if we don't we have a miserable marriage.
I have my own theory: Familiarity Breeds Contempt!
I think that you live with anyone that closely for that long of time and you're gonna have differences of opinion and get on each other's nerves. I'd be that way with my best friend or my sisters (all of whom I love to death).
And of course, I'm not entirely blameless. LOL.
Irish, I loved your story. It was so sweet. Hellion, I laughed out loud at the angry asshole story. Janga, your nephew's story broke my heart that both of them grew out of love. Hopefullly, someday, they'll each find another HEA.
I'm blessedly single. No plans on ever changing that. Men are idiots enough when you date them, I couldn't imagine a lifetime of living with one. *g*
These stories are amazing. I can't believe that I belong to a sex that could be so insensitive at times! OK perhaps I can if I concentrate hard. *g*
On tool boxes though, I know a young lady taking an engineering degree who would be lost without her toolbox *g*
Pretty lucky in my own marriage. If there are probs we tend to create 'his' and 'her' zones.
Thus I take care of the finance and investment and Mrs Q deals with shopping and other stuff that bores me mindless. Divide and conquer is a great strategy in most arenas of conflict. *g*
If there were gongs to award my vote would go to Marnee's F bomb for best story and Marnee's Cesarean as best example of husband insensitivity.High commendations for all the others.
As Hellion comments though, men do learn from mistakes and marriage is a lifelong learning process so in theory I should be nearly perfect now.
Cap'n, can I suggest apple blossom rather than rose petals in the garden of eden!?
Ha, I've been married over half my life and I haven't hit 40 yet! We've been through it all from teenage obsession to a more mature relationship. From drugs and alcohol to legalistic religion.
I've thrown things and he's...been hit by them. And no I wasn't drunk just really, really pissed.
There has to be a growth there if you're going to make it work. I think you are in the perfect waters for writing Eve. I mean really, she didn't have any examples to go by, no mentors, nobody to show her how to knit, no one to teach her how to be submissive to Adam. I'm sure with them two, at least at the beginning it was all about the sex, and then she went turned her eye toward the serpent. Faithless bit...ok won't go there.
All I'm saying is he needs to become a little less overbearing so that she'll be a little more accepting of his dictates. With them both being alphas there just no other way. They'll fight, they'll put Pamolive on each other's food, or snakes in his bed, but then they'll look at each other, try to remember what they were fighting about and get a good laugh.
A few weeks ago, Mr. Scott and I were not on the best of terms, nobody told us opening a business and running it would stress the heck out of our marriage. Any way, he said something that made me mad, and I said, "Screw, screw, just go screw my flower." Hey, I was flustered and there were flowers all around. He burst out laughing and asked, "You want me to pollinate your petals?"
Sex can be sweet or it can be hot and needy. When a couple clashes they tend to find release in the hot and needy. Ruffle the feathers a bit and give them sweet and tender.
Sorry I've been absent of late, but I really want you all to know RWR is the bomb!
Renee
Oh, birthdays seem to be non-existent around here, at least in my case. I'm the only one who doesn't get gifts from the hubby, although he does bring me green carnations on St. Patrick's Day.
One year for Christmas, we were shopping on Christmas Eve like always, he had half the kids, I had the other half. We were at Wal-mart, I'm in the jewelry section and he's in women's clothing and I hear "Hey, what size bra you wear?" It took me only a second to realize that everyone in the overcrowded store looked at me. I so wanted to die, I mean come on, does everyone want to know I'm a double d? sheesh, I should have asked him... oh never mind. ;)
Renee
Man, we don't have any good stories like these. We're really boring, I guess. Usually I'm the one doing the yelling (and usually it's because something else made me mad, or because it's 2 AM and the baby is STILL AWAKE) and he just takes it.
One time, I was mad because the city had closed like half the roads in our neighborhood and so I had to drive all over creation just to get out of the subdivision and I called DH to vent. After a minute or two of my yelling, he says, "Can you please stop yelling? Everyone can hear you." I forgot that the earpiece on his phone was broken and he had to always put it on speakerphone to hear calls.
Eesh.
Renee - The screw the flowers story cracked me up. That's the best part, being able to go from mad to smiling at each other in seconds.
You make great points about Captain being in the perfect position to write Eve as a married woman. Eve had no clue about marriage and no other marriages to look to for guidance. That's perfect! Though now Captain will have to pretend she doesn't know any married people. LOL!
Jordan - I'm a total venter so I can relate. Though since I'm single, my poor mother or a few of my friends have to hear it. But sometimes you just have to get that stuff out.
Your husband sounds like he could win some kind of patience award. Though he really is the lucky one as he gets you for his prize. :)
I finally gave up on expecting or waiting for results that I want from the men in my life. Call me a critic, but I finally realized that they are a whole other species that I will never understand. I have turned a new leaf and have found GREAT satisfaction in trying to just understand myself. I'm a book buff, so of course I turned to a book to help me out with this discovery, Dana Dorfman writes in her book, "The Pink Forest", about just what I was looking for. (FYI, I love the title, very girly!)
Jordan - that's hilarious! And the baby is up all night? I'm so sorry. I hope you're getting some sleep somewhere.
You ARE a pessimist, Hellion. You Really are! You need to start looking on the Bright Side of things. You should be HAPPY that the collection of proposals you’ve received have been from married men. Gosh, I’d be Happy if I were getting proposals from married men. Don’t agree with my pov? Then look at my last post under the blog titled “Conference Afterglow!”
Julie, I'm only a pessimist because none of the married men belonged to a religion where it was legal to have more than one wife. What good is a marriage proposal if I can't marry the guy? It's impossible to catch these married men between wives.
Renee & Terri: That is an EXCELLENT point about Eve. Though technically my story starts with Adam & Eve's divorce...so here they've spent all their lives together (and afterlife together)--and now they're going to live without each other. Basically I'm trying to write a reunion story. How can you find common ground with someone you're sworn to loathe? Or, harder, how do find common ground and like with someone you didn't respect anymore (or believe you didn't respect)? Though I don't know if A&E don't respect each other...I think it's more Irish's thing about familiarity breeding contempt.
I might have to work that angry asshole line into the story. I can see Adam actually saying that...and with all those babies, SOMEBODY had to help deliver them. *LOL*
Jordan: *LOL* That's so what I would do too! But I'm pretty crabby without sleep. Hell, I'm pretty crabby WITH sleep.
Melissa: Good plan!! I'll have to look up that book. I've got to change my expectations about men. They can be romantic...but it's rarely the Hollywood gesture (unless you can date a Leo...they seem to love Hollywood gestures)...and it's RARELY the guy you want the romantic gesture from. *LOL* Women's expectations are funny things. 99% of the time we don't even know what our own expecations are...
Ely, I'd swear we were separated at birth if you weren't 3 years younger.
Q--I love the divide and conquer strategy. Teamwork...and I could so use a guy who was good in investment. So long as his idea of investing was by buying a bunch of Powerball lottery tickets and hoping we'd win. I am thinking something a bit more practical though perhaps a small gamble. *LOL* (Is there such a thing as a small gamble? Hmmm.)
I love the irony of Apple Blossoms. I'll have to keep that in mind. Hmmm...
Kelly, be careful what you say: people who say they don't expect marriage wake up in Vegas going, "Who are you and why am I wearing a wedding ring?" Then you'll have to do that marriage counseling thing like in that Ashton Kutcher movie.
Maggie: Your stories about your husband are so sweet! It's funny you started writing to make the ideal "man"...
I've been married for 22 years now and we've been together 27 years. I've known him for more than half my life. He greets me with 'Hello beautiful' every morning. He says the same thing to the dog but he says it to me first.
I love him with all my being but there are some things for which he has no talent whatsoever.
He is also terrible at keeping secrets like bridal and baby showers. My friends called an emergency meeting when I was getting married to discuss my bridal shower. Wait a minute. I'm supposed to be surprised. No, he couldn't make it. My sil, my maid of honor, kept changing the date she was available. Most of the invitations had white out all over them.
It took one phone call that went something like this: I don't care! Find coverage for your shift, tell your sister to tell her friend to pick a F-bomb wedding date and stick to it.
I had to pretend to be surprised.
Fast forward to my baby shower. My husband just flat out told me about it because he couldn't take the pressure of keeping it from me. Okay, I can handle that. We were married 10 years at this point. We get to the place and half our friends and some family aren't there. I was disappointed and asked where they were. It turns out he made copies of only one side of each page in our address book to give my friends who were sending out the invitations.
I've forbidden him from ever having anything else to do with any party, gathering or meeting that features me as the guest of honor. He is to hand over the whole address book should someone lose their head and give me a surprise party.
He is definitely not in charge of calling to let them know when I go to meet my Maker.
Hellion, there are way worse things things than waking up married to Ashton Kutcher.lol. But I see what you mean. I certainly don't want wake up with someone resembeling Screech from Saved by the Bell!
Oh, also, I want to read that book about Lucifer!!
*ROTFL* Poor Santa! And poor husband! I hate planning parties or keeping secrets, so I feel his pain....but that's some funny stuff. *LOL*
Kelly, Ashton Kutcher probably wouldn't be bad. He does have nice abs and a pretty smile. Eeeeww about Screech...good reference. Ick. I could list some more. *LOL* I'll get right on Lucy's book...poor guy is dying to have his own side of the story for a change!
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