Monday, January 28, 2008
Santa Burns on Just What Men Are Really Thinking
For as long as I can remember, I’ve found people, men in particular, to be fascinating. While the love of the written word has been in my blood for as long as I can remember, the very nature of human nature never ceases to amaze me. And as a writer, I find my male characters, both hero and secondary, enthralling. And I wonder to myself – Just what are they thinking?The men of our stories, our heroes, are on a journey of self-discovery. In meeting and falling in love with our heroines, they must break one of the cardinal rules of manhood - open up to themselves and their ladies. They must fall in love and actually have the capacity to do so.
There are numerous resources out there to facilitate the research into exactly what men are thinking. We do, after all, want to paint an accurate picture. So what are these resources? Libraries and online sites are filled with books that help spell out for the 21st Century woman exactly what men are thinking. Classic among these is ‘Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus’.
Another gold mine is the internet. I stumbled upon this resource on my way to check in on my writing group VaNo. It’s a Yahoo group and, as such, Yahoo comes up and lists clips on interesting bits of information. On that particular day, they featured an article on four reasons men marry. And I thought to myself, they were able to come up with four? Off the top of my head I could only come up with one. He married because he met the love of his life and could not fathom life without her. Yes, that’s the romance writer in me speaking. So I clicked on it and found my way to ‘Men’s Health’, a men’s magazine in its internet incarnation.
Another gold mine is the internet. I stumbled upon this resource on my way to check in on my writing group VaNo. It’s a Yahoo group and, as such, Yahoo comes up and lists clips on interesting bits of information. On that particular day, they featured an article on four reasons men marry. And I thought to myself, they were able to come up with four? Off the top of my head I could only come up with one. He married because he met the love of his life and could not fathom life without her. Yes, that’s the romance writer in me speaking. So I clicked on it and found my way to ‘Men’s Health’, a men’s magazine in its internet incarnation.
What an eye opener! It’s geared toward men in their twenties and thirties and focuses on men’s health (duh), getting and staying fit and staying at the top of your game. It is also full of helpful hints on how to get and keep your woman – in a very PC, "this is the 21st century" kind of way. It seems, ladies, that what men are thinking is how to please us – in every way. Who knew?! All this time they’ve been concerned about keeping our goals a priority and to keep the lines of communication open.
And then it hit me! Men think just like we do and want the same things we do! And this is exactly how the men in romance behave – once they’ve come to their senses and realized that they are in love and want the whole world to know it. Whether it’s at a ball with the heroine’s favorite urchins surrounding them or while filming a cooking show that everyone from their hometown has come to watch.
So, friends, in your own reading or writing, what are your heroes thinking? Are they listening to what other people are saying to them or do they prefer to drive on through without stopping for directions?
Terrio here - I want to thank Santa (pictured above left with Eloisa James center and myself at the 2007 New Jersey Romance Writer's Conference) for joining us today. This is her first blog ever and what a topic to tackle. To celebrate and in honor of our Foodie guest, one lucky commenter is going to win the Little Cheese & Wine Book by Gregor Schaefer as well as What Men Think About by Patrick Wahl. Now get commenting and good luck!
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112 comments:
Now, Santa... be honest. Your research is from all the hot men you meet at the deli. *g* And I'm sure you do a couple of test runs, too.
This was a great blog---yay on joining the blog-dom ranks. Does this mean that you're a pirate? Or just boarding ship for a day?
I think that a lot of women wonder about what men are really thinking. I'd like to be simple and just say the standard response: sex. But surely, they're all not that shallow?
Hmmmm...
But a couple of my friends who are in relationships or sort-of relationships call me to ask why he's doing this and why he's doing that. My response isn't appropriate for this site but it usually involves a string of curse words and a blunt response that doesn't go over too well.
But what I love about writing romances... is that for one moment in time, you can make the men---in your book---say and do whatever you want. Unfortunately, for me, my men continue to do whatever they damn well please. It never ends.
Even in the world of fiction.
Oh, and I am so calling that guy with the tats. So sexy.
I believe that's the Rock, isn't it? YUM.
What are my men thinking? Usually how to get my heroine into bed. Yes, yes, I know they think outside the box as well. *private snicker* Sorry, had a Urban Slang moment there... I know they think beyond trying to get a woman into bed and onto important things like: beer, watching the game, hanging with their friends, and wondering what the devil his love interest could see in him--since it can't possibly be his hair since he's losing that.
Not that he'd admit he's losing his hair. Not aloud anyway.
I'm sure they're more like us than I care to admit, but being my personal dating research of them hasn't been exactly flattering, I'm sticking with this assumption. *LOL* I don't care how well-rounded Men's Health Columnist is.
Ah, yes, that be The Rock. I thought he looked to be in contemplation and so fit the topic. Not that he isn't pretty to look at too...
Research based on the Deli Thugs? Now, that would be an article. A very short one. LOL! From what I hear and can guess anyway.
Alas, Santa is Pirate for the Day! But she's welcome to come back anytime she likes, of course. Especially if she can give us answers about men. In fact, this might need to become a monthly update.
What are they thinking NOW? Ok, how about NOW? And NOW? LOL!
We could always fall back on what Mr. Foxworthy says - Men are thinking two things, I want a beer and I want to see something naked. LOL!
I told you Foxworthy was right.
However the Rock does contemplate pretty well. I love his interviews. He seems truly intelligent and very funny--and I'm sorry to say that even my darling Orlie doesn't come off that well in interviews.
The best part is The Rock is only a few months younger than I am. So I don't have to feel like a perv for lusting after him. LOL!
Hey guys! Thanks for the warm welcome!
I am only a pirate for the day - I have to return the costume by sunset tomorrow or they'll make me walk the plank.
Elyssa - I do get a tremendous amount of information from the men who come into our store. In fact, the hero in my third book (yet to be written) is based on a group of Russian house painters who came in one day. I immediately saw a Nordic looking man of Russian descent whispering sweet nothings in my heroine's ear in that throaty Russian accent. Delish!
I don't think we'll ever be able to unlock the mind of men. There are times, especially when I'm writing, that I really would rather wallow in my ignorance.
'Sides, I like having sweet nothings whispered in my ear.
*LOL* Wallowing in Ignorance is one of our favorite rules around here, Santa!
I want to work with you in the deli. *swoons*
Wow! What a great blog Santa to start off the week! Welcome to the pirate ship! Grab some rum and settle down with the hottie crew member of the week.
I often remember what my DH has said to me before. "When I'm sitting and not talking, I'm not thinking about anything. Don't over anaylize me. It will make you crazy."
So I apply this to my male characters. Men don't think like women do. I often wish I had the ability to fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow, but I have four dozen mental lists to go through before that happens. The DH just goes to sleep.
So what I love about writing in first person is I only have to worry about what's going on in my heroine's mind and make my man do the actions. Often, even when I'm not working with a male POV, my hero decides he's going to take the reins and say something incredibly stupid. I suppose you can't even get away from it in the literary world. What a shame! LOL
Congrats on your first blog, Santa! What a great way to start off your blogging career!
PS. That is the Rock. I love that pic. I believe Lis gave me that one a year or so ago. Santa you have great taste!
Great topic! One of the reasons I like reading romance so much is that the characters for the most part do what you want them to do i.e get their act together and do what they have to do to get what they desire/need. The hero is wanting and needing, willing to comunicate (eventually) and they both are BRAVE. witch in real life most people aren´t. we might have moments of courage, but also so many times where we chick out and opt for the comfortable, known and "safe". what am I trying to say?
umh.
lost my thread there.
oh yeah, that in most aspects I think we arent that much different. (when I stare blankly into the walls I am not thinking about anything either. well obviously I am thinking, but it is about "nothing". )
and Orly should have just smiled his pretty smile and said no comment. I saw the extras on the first POC and had a huge turn-off..
Men think? Who knew? I know they wire up guys to electrodes all the time and I think they respond to two things: sex and food. Seriously, wonderful blog. Half the fun of writing is creating a guy you'd like to have love you. Can't live with them, can't live without them.
You are so right, Sin. My DH never ceases to amaze me because the same holds true for his waking hours, too. I can run off a dozen things that can be done around the house while I'm out doing the other dozen but when I come home - nada.
Hon, why didn't you do A, B or C? I was with the kids and they're all here. I started off the day with three kids and I ended the day with three.
Sigh. At least they're the same the kids and ones we can genetically attest to.
Hi Maggie! This whole blog thing is pretty interesting. And, yes, in all fairness they do think even if it is only about sex and food which I believe produce the same hormonal reactions. Well, at least they're predictable!*w*
How rude! I forgot to reply to hvitveis. Yes, it does take a bit of bravery to step out and become a full participant in any relationship.
I'll have to take an unofficial poll today at work and see if men really think about things as much as women do. I think I may already know the outcome.
Hi Santa! Welcome to the boat!
What an interesting post. Pardon me while I attempt to give men their due here. *ducking tomatoes, other rotten fruit, and empty bottles of rum* Come on people, simmer down.
I claim to be no expert and my experience is limited to my one docile DH. (hi honey, if you're reading). But, it seems to me that men do think about the stuff we think about sorta, but they just don't have the accompanying drama. They think, "work is stressing me," but it ends there and doesn't become "I hate that b!tch so and so and my boss is out to get me and I wish I had a bigger cubicle, etc." It's just, I'm stressed. Or, I'm sad or I'm relieved. But, not the accompanying female angst. It seems like emotions, lite.
Sin, my hubby gave me the same advice. There is no additional inner dialogue and then he'd get annoyed if I kept asking, what's wrong.
At times it would be nice to be without all that additional blah blah in my head, but I think if it was gone for good, I would miss it. It's nice knowing I'm in tune with others.
As a qualification, I think that men do think about food and sex. A lot. And is it just me or can men change any innocuous statement into some sort of sexual innuendo? That must be on the Y chromosome....
Great Blog Santa!!
San, you mean to tell me men want the same things we do?? But *I* don't always want sex, beer, football, and steak.
Seriously though, I do think they're not so different from us. And you're right--we ALL want love. But you know how girl babies tend to be a little hardier than boy babies because we tend to be stronger internally? I don't think that ever changes. In general, I see most men as a) deathly afraid and b) soft despite their grunty objections.
You also asked about what our specific hero is thinking ... mine is thinking he hates the heroine for making him like her. Again, like the boy babies, he hasn't found internal strength yet...even though, as you say, everyone truly does want the same thing.
And my hero is a driver on without stopping for directions type. My heroine, however, is going to hand him his ass and MAKE him stop, because that's out job, isn't it??
LOVE YOUR GUTS and great blog,
J
Jeesh, after re-reading my post, I sound like a ball-buster and yet I'm so live-and-let-live with my DH.
Yo Ho Ho -- that was a great blog Santa! The photo sucks you in (or maybe that was just my breath), but the writing keeps you reading.
If you ever figure out what men are really thinking (beside the obvious answer of, "do men think?"), please let us all know.
Of course, it may just be as simple as the old wives tale: cook in the kitchen; maid in the living room, happiness in the bedroom.
Santa - you make a grand pirate.
I forgot to say that the picture is beautiful, ladies. And I didn't realize EJ was so tall!
MarneeJo - you are so right! They are as single threaded in their thinking as they are in their day to day living. I often say my DH is so laid back that he's practically comatose - but in a good way, lol.
Hey J Perry!!!! Your husband thinks about beer and steak?
LOVE YOUR GUTS, too!
Santa
Ducking and running....
Oh, don't kid yourself J Perry--we know you're a ballbuster. :) Truth will out.
Marnee, I can see that about guys. Emotions but without the commentary. Which is weird...you'd think they'd want commentary with as much as it shows up on their ballgames.
Cap'n - I think they just aren't super comfortable with the commentary, so they tune it out - both when we give it and when it happens to them. But, you know, 50 years ago, guys wouldn't have owned up to the emotions at all, so the fact that they acknowledge the emotions is a big step. And don't start me on sports commentary. My DH is a walking sports almanac. Seriously, think Rainman, then apply to sports. Frightening.
Santa - honestly, I like that laid back aspect of my hubby's personality too. Yin yang, you know.
Hi everybody!
Great first blog, Santa!! I have an idea to throw into the plot: men may think like us, or they may think about sex all the time -- but I think one crucial difference is how they think about things they do wrong. That's where I think men and women really diverge. Has anyone tried to get her husband/partner to apologize lately?? HUH????
Eloisa
Eloisa James
Apology? It's like pulling teeth in my house. It's like tying a string to a tooth that's not ready, and tying the other end to the front door. You have to slam that door over and over again just to get it loosened up, and then WHAM! it happens so fast you have no idea what just happened.
Men apologize? Are you kidding? My ex-boyfriend *explained* in minute detail why I was the reason he had to break up with me--and by the end of it, I was apologizing to him for being a social embarrassment.
Men do not apologize. They say they do, but this is an urban myth. Like unicorns being spotted in the wild.
Hey Guys! It's busy here today.
Hi, Santa! Welcome and great blog.
I think, Marnee, you're insights are pretty spot on. Another thing I would throw into that equation is respect. I think men want respect more than they want love. Even as far as we've come as a society, I think sometimes (way deep down in a place they don't want to acknowledge) they still want to be the breadwinner, provider and protector.
And as I've been told by the DH - "If you're wondering what I'm thinking, it's probably sex. We're uncomplicated (my read - simple) creatures at heart!"
Oh, I forgot to mention that his enlightening me on what he was thinking all the time has cured me from asking - "What are you thinking!"
Welcome to the ship Santa! Great blog.
I write in first person, so I show my heroes thoughts through actions, and reactions. I hope to show that they are more than just a handsome face. I like to establish that they have morals. Even if they stray into the gray at times, they are decent, caring individuals with redeeming qualities.
Most men think in black and white, no emotion enters into the picture. They also have the audacity to think whatever women are upset about at any given time is due to hormones...
I love your male pic choice. *sigh* The Rock is one fine specimen:)
San said, "Hey J Perry!!!! Your husband thinks about beer and steak?"
Rotten.
Hellion said, "Oh, don't kid yourself J Perry--we know you're a ball buster. :) Truth will out."
Also, very rotten.
Eloisa, yes ... just last week, in fact. My best approach to make mine apologize is the chill factor. And I'm not even faking it or manipulating him because nothing honestly puts me in a deep-freeze quicker than when he screws up (read: when he so blatantly puts himself first).
What starts my great thaw, however, is an apology. But once I get it, even if I still hate his guts a little, I do try and accept it, even if I need a little more time to get to room temp. he knows to leave me alone for while after that. (And I'm so sick of my metaphor right now, but you get my idea.)
I do have a quesiton, however. Do you all think men and women are different in how we connect to others and the resulting language we use? In "You Just Don't Understand Me" by Deb Tannen, (I think it’s a precursor to that Mars/Venus book by that other guy), she suggests that women look at the world from a horizontal perspective--how I'm connected to you and you and you--versus men, who use a more vertical approach--I'm above you and below you. You think that’s true?
something's screwy with my account, so now I'm anon.
J Perry
Hey Santa!
Great blog, babe. Okay, I don't even want to think about what men think. I'm pretty sure its something like "sex. dohhhh. sex. dohhhh. steak. dohhhh. sex." dohhh=Homer Simpson noises
Does anyone remember when La Dodd was asked how she wrote the male pov and she jokingly said "I dumb down my female pov" LMAO! That's my favorite evah.
Men apologize? I thought testosterone blocked that ability;)
aww, J, you'll never be anon with me!
Hey-ho, Santa!
Men are always thinking. The problem is they aren't usually thinking abut the things we're thinking they're thinking. And we should know what they're thinking because anytime they're thinking important things (i.e. things worth thinking about they look guilty. Or frightened.
At which point they back away from the important thought and return to the man thought.
For example:
Guy: She's always so pretty. I like pretty. I wonder if I could love her? But what's love? God, my head hurts. She's so pretty.
At the risk of being made to walk the plank around here today, I must give my DH props, I think he's quicker to apologize than I am. He rages faster, but it dies down fast and then the apology is pretty quick. Me, I take a while to get going, but then once I do, I don't let it go and apologize very fast. Stubborn irish.
Kim brought up writing the male POV. Anyone else have some suggestions? Usually I just make sure I don't have them being overly explanatory. Most men I know just give their opinion and let it stand, while I feel like women have to explain themselves.
Any other thoughts out there?
Oh, and JP, I loved your idea about the horizontal vs vertical thing. I'd never thought of it like that.
Great blog, San!
I think one of the joys of writing and reading romance is knowing what the hero is thinking. :)
More seriously, I find Carol Gilligan's work interesting, and,according to Gilligan, men think in terms of rules and justice and women think in terms of caring and relationships. Even when they reach the same conclusions, they get there by different routes.
I have also read that men think of sex every 52 seconds and women think of it once a day. All I can say to that is that the researcher clearly never met the RWR crew. LOL!
LOL. Janga, then the only explanation for me would be that I was born with a male brain.
What a scary thought. LOL
Marn: I agree. I'm always explaining for myself. Matt just states it and walks away. After he states it, he doesn't think about it anymore. But it leaves me stewing for hours (sometimes even days) afterward. Overactive brain problem. It comes back to that over-anaylizing thing I said earlier. LOL
Leave it to Marnee to marry the only smart man. Marnee, you've found the only Unicorn! Be careful with him.
J Perry: Of course, I'm rotten. Pirate. But don't pay me any mind, there are four other perfectly well-mannered *gives skeptical eye at Sin* pirates on this ship...so don't let me run you off. :)
Kim: YES! I loved that interview Dodd gave. Only she could get away saying something like that!
Connie: *ROTFL* True. Thanks for dropping by the ship!!! :) Now I need to go work on being pretty...apparently that's a key... Can you be a pirate and be pretty? Wait, I have my teeth and they're white...so yes, I'm doing well...
You know of the horizontal and vertical thing--I thought for sure, men would be the horizontal thinkers....
Janga, I've been dinged by the Queen. *LOL* Yes, I definitely think of it more than once a day. But I frequently think I channel a 15 year boy in my body. Always wanting to eat, constantly thinking about sex, can turn any innocent remark into something dirty....
Dirty hellion!!
*gives the eye back to Hellion* I'm perfectly respectible...
*checking torn shirt and barely there skirt* Hm. Guess not.
Eloisa and Connie, what an honor! Thanks for dropping by the ship!
Crap, I just posted something about Connie's new book, and put it under another Pirate post.
You're all gonna put me in that barrel with the hole, aren't you (nevermind, Hellion)?
So here's a RD version: Connie, I read Cinthia Hamer (a loyal Squawkee) that Naomi sending Ardis to Vallhalla scene over coffee on Friday.
She started gasping and sputtering until she cried.
And then I went home and read a poignant scene about Prescott so painfully misunderstanding Joe, and then I was crying.
Holy Crazyness. What a day to be home sick and sleep in. I've spent nearly an hour just trying to catch up.
*waves to Eloisa and Connie* Talk about getting the big guns on this ship. Whoohoo!!
My ex has still never apologized for (or admitted to) sleeping with other women so I'm not holding my breath.
I agree with Marnee - they think with no commentary. But I still don't think they're simple creatures. Have you ever examined a guy's relationship with his buddies? They're just as messed up as we are, I'm sure of it.
And I'll stand up to say I must have an extra Y somewhere. Much more than once a day. And as chocolate counts as food, I think about that way too much too. lol
The first contest I entered I got back feedback that said my hero came across as girly or gay. Let me tell you, Bryan was not happy about that. But that taught me to keep his dialogue more simple.
And simple does not mean stupid, it just means he doesn't say "I'm really tired of all this stuff." He says, "I'm done." See? Same thing, different way. LOL!
Oh, and I so had the exact same thought on the horizontal thing. I was sure men would be the horizontal direction but then I realized they strive to *stand up* the tallest and it made sense the way J explained it. *g*
So, uh, I can turn anything into an innuendo too. It's the way I was raised. My dad is so proud. LOL!
Terrio, you're dirty too.
I guess this is why Emily Post never invited pirates to an afternoon tea ...
And your ex will get his in the form of Karma. It's law (hence the phrase, Karmic Law).
Hope you feel better
J - I'm a bit better but I'll be lots better after a hot shower and a big cup of coffee.
Marnee - forgot to say yes, Eloisa is very tall. I'm wearing 2-3" heels in that picture. LOL! And she's wispy too. I wish I could hate her for that, but she's too dang sweet to hate her. Dang it.
I agree with Ter about guys just not having the commentary. They certainly are not simple or we would surely understand them better. :)
And I wanna be wispy. What a good adjective for someone and it definitely fits Eloisa.
Men thinking? Don't be silly! What will you blog about next - pigs flying? LOL!
Great blog post! (Of course, I knew it would be!)
Love the blog...and OMG 49 comments. I have to come back and read them. lol!
Men are thinking what we think, only they think it a little differently. I can name every personality type in a man (that women share) within my family and friends.
Guys want to marry, because they want the things we want... companionship, a partner in life, maybe a family, and a friend. And men can be affectionate, more so than some women. For instance, my father is more forward with his emotions than my mother.
I'm very forward with my children, a little more so than my husband.
I'll have more to say later I'm sure! LOL There's a lot of comments to read through!
Hope you blog regularly Santa... you did great!
Hi, Santa!
Thank you for inviting me to the party. Characteristically, I'm late.
As someone who grew up in a family of girls and a fairly silent father, and married a husband who is a computer guy with ADD and who doesn't follow sports, I consider myself an authority on men. (Okay...stop laughing now..)
I'm much more interested in my heroes than in my heroines. I suppose through them I'm trying to figure out what my father was thinking all those growing up years...but I'll spare you a Freudian analysis.
I agree with Marnee that men don't have the same inner dialogue about their emotions that women do. I also think that men tend to think about things one at a time, so when my husband agrees to go to the Mall with me to look for X, he's totally flummoxed when I also want to look for Y and Z and abc while we are there ("But you we were going to buy me a shirt.")
My husband thinks I'm ignoring him when I'm watching TV, checking email, and listening to what the cats are up to all at the same time.
And I'm with Eloisa regarding husbands apologizing. I've learned for other cues to indicate my husband is sorry, because "I'm sorry" is often noy stated or not stated genuinely. I must be fair, though, over the years my husband has learned to apologize, genuinely and with greater frequency.
I am fussy about how men are portrayed in fiction. I believe they do not say much...they use as few words as possible to communicate.
I also believe men are concerned with action more than discussion or self-examination. They want to "do" something about a problem, not talk about how they feel about it.
And if they have a painful past, or something to feel guilty about, they don't ruminate about it; rather, it becomes like a part of them and their global self-image.
In Romance, when loving the heroine changes them, that becomes part of their self-image, too.
Great first blog, Santa! Look at all the comments you generated!
The Vanishing Viscountess on sale now!
I love to make my men say and do what I want! And they are usually only direct with the woman they love, so I think that keeps it real.
Wow! More big guns. And a pistol or two. *w*
To be fair - I probably don't apologize all that quickly either. And I love that shopping bit, Diane. So true. My ex hated (read: refused to go) Christmas shopping with me. I never make a list, I just have to walk around for hours looking at everything until I spot that perfect gift for whomever it suits. Drove him crazy not to have a direct purpose or goal.
And the action thing is right on too. I think that's why sometimes when we just need them to listen to us vent about something, they don't understand that we don't need or even want them to *fix* it. Just to listen. That's so hard for them.
And I do believe Santa is going to have to become a monthly installment. LOL!
Santa
Thanks for inviting me to read the blog. It's been awesome. Someone asked about Men's POV, which generated tons of discussion. (quick disclaimer -- I'm not a writer; just a reader) Think it's important to note that you're not writing a Man's POV; you're writing how a woman wants her man (or men)to think; act, etc. And, from a reader's POV, that's a lot of fun.
Diane says:
"And if they have a painful past, or something to feel guilty about, they don't ruminate about it; rather, it becomes like a part of them and their global self-image."
I love the way you put this! I need to remember this when characterizing my hero. :)
And Tiff, welcome to the party!
You know, we hear so much about a woman's self image I've never thought of men even having one. But I know they do. How strange.
Hop - Yes, we do have the flexibility of saying, "But this is fiction!" which means we can make it up as we go along. But unless the hero is a professor or writer or some such, he's unlikely to speak in the more feminine way.
That's where I have trouble. I think my heroes can be *guys* and still sound intelligent. It's a fine line but I refuse to make him sound like a neanderthol. No idea how to spell that. LOL!
Janga...
I only wish that were true about me--I'm with you sin... born with a mail brain... that thought comes... many more times than once a day. LOL
Great blog, Santa! You're having quite the debut!!! As for how I write men, well, I think of a woman, then take away reason and accountability...LOL! NOT!
I totally agree with JPerry. Men are heaps of vulnerable jelly beneath those rock hard abs--though like everybody else they have their mulish moments. And they definitely take some different routes to understanding sometimes.
Manda! Welcome aboard. Men are mush. Hmmm....I think y'all might be onto something. Though I have an ex that cried more than a 13 year old running on PMS at a Zac Efron autograph session. It was most unattractive.
So, if we want to think like men - or at least write men who seem to think like men - then we can have the mush underneath and just make sure they get to the same conclusion as the heroine but by a different (read: completely long way around) route. Great lesson.
Phew! I just finished reading all the comments! Thanks for stopping by everyone and posting! And thanks to my great hostesses for popping in all day. Teri, I hope you feel better!
Let's see if I can snag everyone...
Hopskipjump - Isn't The Rock delish? Terrio picked that out for me since I haven't figured out how to attach those things! And, guys, hopskipjump is a verocious reader. We trade books all the time.
Eloisa - It is hard for men to apologize because they would have to think too deeply about what they may or may not have done. Then the whole 'you are blowing all this way out of proportion' discussion comes into place. Of course, I always come back with 'you should know what you did!'.
J Perry - I've got to work that whole vertical vs. horizontal thinking into my new book! Which leads me to ask....do European (insert continent here) men think differently than American men?
And Brockway in the house too! You hit it right on the head. Too deep and their brains hurt! Lurved 'Skinny Dipping', btw. I'm on my second read of it!
More responses:
I think MarneeJo harpooned a great guy! Not as great as mine, mind you, but still great!
I haven't let me DH or deli thugs read this yet but my DH did try to save face for his peeps and said that men may seem like they are only thinking of sex and beer but only on a higher plane. (translation: more positions with different women and microbrewed beers)
Kim - I have to remember that one! Testosteroned blocked can account for so much!
Janga - I think the research you read hit it spot on!
Diane G. - My DH thinks the same way. If I go from one thing to the other - I'm being flighty. Noooo..I'm done with one topic and go to the other because I have things to DO!
Here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E15jjkUqJaU
This is what men are thinking.
San said: "And, guys, hopskipjump is a verocious reader."
Verocious??? This is my new word, btw.
And yes, it is *I* making fun of your spelling.
Almost forgot...
Jaye! Come on, partners think like men sometimes too? Right?
Tiff - thanks for popping by! Some men can be more direct because they say what they mean rather than beat around the bush. And be nice people!
Manda's here too! And I love that vulnerability under those rock hard abs. That's also why I love tortured heroes. Their scars hid so much!
J - you're killing me here! LOL! Flashbacks. Make 'em stop!!!
Jaye Holly, I've heard SO many fabuloso things about you, darlin'.
I also hear we're from the same corner of the forest.
My folks are still in Silver Spring.
Terrio, do you know how long it took me to find that link on youtube???
And all the beer/man/booger crap I had to wade through?
Oy.
Way to take one for the crew, J. I knew you were a pirate at heart. LOL!
Oh, and I love that comment about men thinking about that stuff on a higher plane. I'm all for more positions. LOL!
What?!
That video proves our points here exactly, lol!
Thanks for pointing out my spelling error, J! There are words for you but we're in polite company, so I'll refrain!
San said: "Thanks for pointing out my spelling error, J! There are words for you but we're in polite company, so I'll refrain!"
I just hope you spell them correctly, San ... or am I a "bucking witch"??
okay, now that I slammed San, i have to get off cuz I'm scared.
Man, the love flying around here is bringing a tear to me eye. *sniffs* Y'all need to pass me a hanky.
And J - that's Bucket Wench. We've found you a job on the ship! LOL!
Don't worry, Santa, my Daddy and Andrew Jackson don't have any use for any person who only knows how to spell a word one way... *LOL*
You're going to make J the Bucket Wench? What is that exactly? The person who scrubs down all the Hottie Crewmembers? Wait, wasn't that Sin & Lisa's job?
You know, I was going to point out earlier that Tiff said she had a "mail brain" and ask if that meant it had stamps on it, but I refrained. J is just less refrained. LOL!
Don't be silly. Sin & Lis are the reason they need the scrub down. They keep getting them all *dirty*.
LOL!
See, Terr, and I didn't even notice that Tiff misspelled anything. I guess Tiff and I just operate on a higher plain. *jutting chin in the air*
I gotta buzz now. It's basketball/jujitsu/basketball night! See you after the cherubs go to sleep!
If bucket wench is what Hellion suggested, I'm there!
But if it has to do with anything else that'll make me gag ... OMG, I've already started!
I really wish I was kidding.
LOL! No one gets sea sick aboard the Romance Writer's Revenge. It's in the code and we'll not stand for it.
J - I've seen the rest of the Hottie crew. You're going to need a bigger bucket. LMAO!!
Didn't have time to read everything but got the gist.
I may be the only one here who knows the answer to Santa's question!
'Sometimes I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits'
May I suggest that you make a list of your favourite intellectual subjects and then list the founding fathers and their gender. Here's my quick random list:
Psychiatry/psychology: Freud,Jung,
Economics: Adam Smith
Quantum theory: Bohr,Schrödinger,Heisenberg,Dirac
Relativity: Einstein
Cooking: Mrs Beeton
Music: Beethoven, Mozart.......
Thats 10 men and one woman! Need I say more?
Great thoughts, dear ladies, speak far louder than words.
Where's Marie Curie on that list?
Dude, are you trying to pick a fight?
For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. --Virginia Woolf
Er... uh... I meant to do that *g*
Sorry, this is what happens when you type secret like at WORK! LOL
Don't you like my pretty edging?
Seriously, I should be banned from making jokes...
Tiff is such a pirate. *LOL*
quantum said: "Thats 10 men and one woman! Need I say more?"
Seriously?
First of all, Freud's legacy stems for sexual feelings he had for his mother. His mother!!!
Carl Jung, on the other hand, had a falling out with Freud because Freud was sleeping with his wife—a fact, btw, found out by analyzing each other’s dreams. Nice.
And how do you think Niels Bohr could focus on his work without Margrethe taking care of things at home?
Plus, there are many people who believe Einstein's first wife, Mileva Maric, helped him with his work.
And while you mention Beethoven and Mozart as two of the greats, many would argue--my classical musician father included--that Bach was by far THE greatest. That being said, Bach had a wife. Two in fact: Maria, who took care of the 7 children they had together and Anna, who took care of the 13 they had. How lovely to be able to focus on one's art while the children are cared for in every possible way.
But I will give you the Mrs. Beeton was probably inspired by Mr. Beeton's belly.
european men vs american men..
since I do not know any american men, I´ll have to draw on how the american man is portrayed on tv.
at first glance there seems to be a macho-thing going on over in the US that would reflect on many sectors om men on the public way of behaving. but then I sit down and think of the "macho iberico" image here is spain.
curiously my meeting with the spanish boys/men have been so very far from that image of the sleezy chesthaired macho-iberico. i swear i thought my boyfrend and all his friends were gay when I first went out with them because they touched eachother, two kisses on the cheek.. a norwegian man would never do that. I think because of insecurity maybe? and also it is a cultural thing. one of my first dates with alfonso there was one of his best friends who had just been dumped, and there was lots of angst and depression there. but as to if they think differently..I think they express diferently..
maybe to especifically chose male author biographies etc? maybe that is a way to get nearer to the answer?
Y'all are too funny. J - Freud would have been proud of that last one.
I believe Q is just trying to tell us that men do think about other things and not so much that women do not think at all. I don't blame him for defending his gender.
He just has to realize that he has never dated nor been married to an American men it is from this perspective that we base our opinions.
J Perry!!! too funny! But Bach wasn't the greatest...pfft... it's quality not quantity *w* and I'm not talking kids.
Beethoven was the best! The passion in that man... mind you he was a bit gone in the head by the end...but those immortal beloved letters are full of a lot of words you might not expect from a man... sigh... don't get me started on beethoven... if that man was alive... sigh...
Yeah, when you get all your research material about the American Thinking Male from "King of Queens"--it's easy to be confused and biased.
Terrio said: "I believe Q is just trying to tell us that men do think about other things and not so much that women do not think at all. I don't blame him for defending his gender."
Really?? I guess it was the "dear ladies" that chapped me arse.
*passes J chapstick*
I promise, Q is just an English gentleman who has spent his life in academia. And if he actually was condescending that way, his own English Rose would probably clap him upside the head. LOL!
But I loved your response. I didn't know all that! I feel like our blog has been officially elevated.
And I like Mozart....*runs away*
Oh, dear God, Tiff .... may you never meet my father or you'll die a slow death from HOURS AND HOURS of conversation about the genius of Bach, during which time you'll learn about obscure concepts i.e., form mirroring function et al.
And don't even ask me to explain-- though I can (I said hours and hours, didn't I)--because I don't want to see your eyeballs roll right out your backside.
See? Now I feel like a big boozy American broad.
Sorry Q.
But you must admit, we women apologize easier than you men.
Oh, but we could sell tickets for that. The Hours and Hours and that eye roll trick...
*passes J more rum*
So in addition to Bucket Wench, you can be an official ship bouncer. Works for me.
The Ship Bouncer. That'd be awesome. (Wait, wouldn't Lance just fish them out?)
I'm sorry, too, Q. I thought I was going to have to pull a Giselle. But if this was your attempt to point out that men think about more things than sex, then I'm really laughing that you referenced FREUD. Hello.
We'll just have to do our best to distract Lance from all the splashing and spluttering.
I'm sure we can think of something.
Well, I know what I'll be doing.
Hello Santa
Jim hear.
What men are thinking. That is an easy one.
Sex, sex,sex,sex,BEER, sex, sex, NICE BUTT, sex, BEER. And so on.
Good luck.
You know, I have some beer in the fridge...
*ducks the bucket*
What?!?
You see? Now Jim, I believe.
And Terrio, you're just a naughty minx
Who told you that? Damn it, that was a secret...LOL!
I'm totally innocent. I just play a perv on the internet.
Q! So nice of you to cross the pond for my very first blog!
Hellion - I've always loved Virginia Woolf and I think I'll add that to my signature.
hvitveis - See there is the mistaken idea of American men, as well as, European men. How they experess themselves would be a great topic for another day. As well as, how that sort of emotional devestment is expressed in romance.
I happen to be reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez's biography which has provided wonderful insight into, not only what he was thinking through his life but how that was manifested in - what I consider - to be his brilliant writing career. He also happens to be one of my favorite authors of all time. Way before he was Oprahfied.
Santa back again! I couldn't sign off without commenting on Jim's comment. Jim and I went to college together and Jim, like many in his family, are steadfast in their convictions and world views, lol. He thought the same exact things back in the day...it's refreshing that he still holds true to them!*w*
And J Perry can't be Ship Bouncer. At least not if there's any high winds. She'd have to be tethered to the mast!
Thanks a billion for having me today! You are the best pirate wenches around! And thank you to everyone who visited today! You ROCK!
I'm a late night person, so I'll be back later! In case anyone else has any other pearls of wisdom.
I'm just sayin'!
Santa - you have been such a fantastic guest blogger and set a record for the most comments ever on the ship! Whoohoo!!!
Thanks for taking us up on the invite and be prepared for us to pester...err...I mean, invite you again in the future!
SantaBaby!
Congratulations upon the launch of your First blog.
I see that you are burning up the internet with your words of wisdom. Break out the Champaign. Alas… though it pains me to say it… I must agree with JPerry. Men are heaps of vulnerable jelly beneath those rock hard abs. As a woman of vast refinement I must confess that I find a man’s rock hard body parts to be quite attractive… all of them except for their rock hard heads. (The one that sits above the shoulders you lil’ perverts!) You cannot tell a man what to do… or how to do it!
Quantum what a Sweat Dear you are to stand up for Men and their Minds. Now honestly Q, we women are quite aware that males have minds… if you didn’t … then how could we possibly make you lose them? (A particularly fave hobby of mine, by the way) You are Such an Innocence among the Wicked Women. Come sit by me and I protect you from… What is making you uncomfortable? Are you Worried that we don’t like… love… men as they really are? See Quantum it’s like this love, as hopskipjump said. “I Think it's important to note that you're not writing a Man's POV; you're writing how a woman wants her man (or men)to think; act, etc. And, from a reader's POV, that's a lot of fun. We know that it’s a Fantasy.
That’s Why we like it!
Of course that doesn’t mean that we don’t like Real flesh and blood men. Just like you dear…
I noticed Quantum that you wrote “Here's my quick random list:”
Well. That explains your male dominated list! You had a Premature Evaluation! Perhaps next time you should be slooow and thorough in your list making… and in everything else you do. Ask any woman, gentlemen, and she will tell you “a man who uses his head slowly and thoroughly is far superior to one who is quick and random!”
OXOX
Julie
Santa, why do I suspect that you wish that I had stayed in retirement?
Crumbs! After commenting that men do think of other things, I went to bed with the most beautiful woman on the planet and,,,,you guessed it *g*
I'm sorry I 'chapped your arse' J Perry Stone. I have of course met many brilliant women in my work and have huge respect for the gentler more intuitive approach that they can bring to life in general and science in particular.
My omission of Madame Curie was a silly oversight Hellion, In any complete list of 'greats' she would certainly have to be there.
Terri, I think you can read me like a book! Thanks for 'saving my arse' once again *g*
Julie, could you move over a little please, I want to take this real slow, no more premature evaluations. I do so love a woman who will listen to me and slow me down. *w*
There, thats the closest I'm going to an abject apology. Now pirates, I need a drink! Where is Hellion hiding that scotch.
Bwah-hah-hah! Guess who's gate-crashed the pirate party?
Q, you're treading shark infested waters here, as I think you've probably figured out.
I about spewed rum over my keyboard at that "gentler" comment...haven't you figured out that the female is by far the more dangerous of the sexes?
Seriously, though...a coworker and I were having a conversation in a similar vein last night. She's about despaired of ever having her dh present her with a gift that she can appreciate. It's as though her hints and downright direct suggestions don't penetrate the dura mater. She's this tiny little thing and he buys her a sweatshirt...in XL. ???
Mine still hasn't figured out after almost 30 years together that I want a diamond...I don't care how overhyped and overpriced they are...I want something big and sparkly on my finger,dammit! And he won't ask for directions. He won't read directions for putting things together, or usage instructions for appliances.
But I love him anyway! :)
All this leads me to believe that all men think about (generally) is sex and how they can get it, booze and when they can get it, food and when the next feeding time is and sports, which is the modern equivalent of war(defending their territory).
I will grant you, there ARE exceptions, as there are in all generalities. Mine doesn't drink alcohol in any form. He just doesn't like it, but you can substitute a Coca-cola for the beer and you'd just about have him pegged.
Julie! Thanks for stopping by and as eloquent as always. Q, you couldn't be in safer hands....really.
My, my Q! You do the pretty so well. Hellion, get him the good scotch you keep behind the ship's wheel.
And Cinthia! Well said sister! And go for the sparkle! I think everyone deserves The Rock...I mean a rock!
Glad to see the party carried on.
Julie - I think you even scared me. LOL!
Cinthia - that's why we're more dangerous, we've convinced them we're the gentler sex. It's all subterfuge. Am I even close on the spelling of that one?
Q - Bud, I've got your back. But I do recommend a bit more contemplation the next time. Not sure how many times we can extract that loafer.
Damn, this was one party. *hands Q the scotch* Great job, Santa, and thanks to everyone who stopped by to talk today. It was great having you on board.
Wow, I almost feel like a Carnival ship
Santa, stopping by really late here. Congratulations on your first blog. Hot men, eh? Way to begin your blogging career!!
Since men in real life rarely think like we women do, it's nice to have the fantasy that all men in romance novels eventually come to think like we do, at least where it matters--love, romance, children, our hobbies, and our pet beliefs.
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