Tuesday, September 6, 2011
Heroines we love, hate, and couldn't care less about
I've been reading a lot of Regencies, lately. Well, not a lot, as I only have about 30 minutes a day to read, but a few. And I noticed something. I can see little bits of myself reflected in the heroines. I'm not exactly like any of them, but in each heroine recently, I've recognized something small that reminds me of myself. Her tendency to cover hurt feelings with cheerfulness. Her careful organization. Something little.
And then I was watching That 70's Show with the baby (yes, I know, I'm an excellent mother....haha), and realized that I identified more with Jackie than with Donna.
Now that's strange. My hypothesis from reading Regencies was that I identified with the heroine because I had some characteristic in common with them.
But if we're looking at That 70's Show, I have much more in common with Donna than Jackie. Donna's not a snob, she's down-to-earth, she's a writer, and well . . . she's nice.
But I love Jackie. I search for episodes when she and Hyde were dating. I desperately wish they had stayed together.
So that got me thinking. Am I identifying with these heroines because I have something in common with them? Or is it really the hero? Do I identify with Jackie because she likes Hyde? Is that what we have in common? Liking the same boy? (and yes, I realize I've now devolved into high-school speak).
We all know that heroes are more important than heroines in romance novels. Most of the time, at least. Let's face it - heroes are hotter. And sexier. But now I'm curious about heroines.
What do you guys think? Do you identify with heroines you have something in common with? Or do you think you identify with the heroine because you identify with the hero? Or do you identify with heroines at all?
And then I was watching That 70's Show with the baby (yes, I know, I'm an excellent mother....haha), and realized that I identified more with Jackie than with Donna.
Now that's strange. My hypothesis from reading Regencies was that I identified with the heroine because I had some characteristic in common with them.
But if we're looking at That 70's Show, I have much more in common with Donna than Jackie. Donna's not a snob, she's down-to-earth, she's a writer, and well . . . she's nice.
But I love Jackie. I search for episodes when she and Hyde were dating. I desperately wish they had stayed together.
So that got me thinking. Am I identifying with these heroines because I have something in common with them? Or is it really the hero? Do I identify with Jackie because she likes Hyde? Is that what we have in common? Liking the same boy? (and yes, I realize I've now devolved into high-school speak).
We all know that heroes are more important than heroines in romance novels. Most of the time, at least. Let's face it - heroes are hotter. And sexier. But now I'm curious about heroines.
What do you guys think? Do you identify with heroines you have something in common with? Or do you think you identify with the heroine because you identify with the hero? Or do you identify with heroines at all?
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84 comments:
Well, in your example...I always dug Donna more. Because she was brainy and confident with that fact. I didn't think a whole lot about her boyfriend and didn't watch the show to the end so don't know where she ended up. I've seen that actress on other shows and been impressed with her.
I watch shows for character interaction...don't think a whole lot about who I ... well. Ziva in NCIS. I love Sam in Burn Notice, but really adore Fiona. And Michael's Mom... The Mentalist? Favorite character is Cho... Castle? His Mom, though I do adore his daughter also. So, for the most part, I identify with secondary characters.
Wonder what the says about me? ;-)
I think that I want to sympathize with the heroines and fall in love with the heroes. I don't need to be exactly like the heroines. I don't even have to like everything about them. I just have to understand where they're coming from, relate with some aspect of them.
But I do need to fall in love with the hero right along with the heroine.
I also think the stories I like best are ones where I relate to their inner pains. Unrequited love. A betrayal. Stuff like that. Adds to the angst, I think.
My work internet is being funky today, so bear with me as I try to comment from my phone :)
First off, happy birthday to our very own Marnee! You're the very best Gunner a pirate could hope for. Happy Birthday!
Second, the idea for this blog came from a Twitter convo Donna and Terri and I had about the boys on the show, and how we were each drawn to one in particular. Turns out Donna and I are going to have to arm wrestle for Hyde.
Awh, thanks Hal! :) I'm started the day off mainlining caffeine, cleaning maple syrup off the table, and watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. It's a good day.
Happy Birthday, Marn! You need to tone down your celebrations though. Woo--too wild for me! :)
Hal, I'm working on my biceps so I can beat you in the arm wrestling. LOL
I didn't watch this show when it was on TV, even though I was a teen during the 70s, so when I watched it this past year on Netflix and really enjoyed it -- I wanted to kick myself.
I remember thinking it was such a gimmick to have Jackie and Hyde together but they really were a fun couple. They seemed to fill in the "emotional gaps" for each other, giving them some interesting conflict.
As for the heroine, I have to feel some kind of connection with her, so I can believe that the hero I'm lusting after should be with her. LOL But I've got to ponder this a bit more. . .while I'm practicing some takedown moves. :)
Chance - I think Donna is an awesome character too, I just never cared about her and eric's relationship like I did with Jackie and Hyde. I like the characters you mentioned, especially Michael's mom. She's awesome!
Marn, I'm going to stand bacxck here with Donna. You go girl! Haha.
Ah, I love angst too - and I think you may be on to something. Having a recognizeable internal paib or trauma is a powerful way to connect to a character.
Is it sad I barely remember this twitter conversation? LOL! I did like Eric, but then I'm a beta lover. I catch Kiddo watching the reruns now and my first instinct is to tell her she can't watch. But then I find my inner cool mom and let it go.
I think I have to want to be like the heroine in some way in order to really enjoy a book. We don't have to be alike, but I either have to want to hang with her or she needs a quality I wish I had.
If she does too many things that annoy me, or I feel don't make sense, then I'm out. Then again, that goes for any character. But I'm much more likely to find a heroine I don't like than a hero.
Chance mentions Castle and though I love that show, Beckett is not my favorite character. In fact, she annoys the piss out of me. But Castle and the other good characters keep me coming back.
Happy Birthday, Gunner!!! Go all out. Put that syrup in your coffee. You deserve it.
Donna, I love how the show embraces their silliness. I watch the reruns so much I could probably quote half the episodes, and I still laugh every time :)
Maybe you need the heroine to be worthy of the hero you're both lusting after. Though that's probably an obvious thing to say :)
Ah! I can post from my computer again! My thumbs shall not have to be sacrificed for the ship
Ter - I could see hesitating to let the kiddo watch. But I think it's awesome you let her. Definitely a cool mom!
I think I come across heroines I dislike more than heroes, as well. Though I'm pretty good at ignoring heroines. I do notice that if I'm reading a lot of one author, I find the heroines interchangeable more quickly than the heroes. I don't know if that's a symptom of the author putting more development into the hero, or me just having a crush :)
Hey guys! For me, it's always about the hero, always. Book, TV, movie ... he's got to be worthy. Which in no way explains my odd love for Kelso... Don't judge me. :)
Happy Birthday Marn!
Hmm...You've really raised an interesting question there Hal. I know what I think about the show and its characters, but how that translates out to book heroines I'm still thinking about.
For the show, even though I identify more with Donna I have to be honest and say she was kind of annoying to me. Yes, we share many characteristics, but I always felt some of her good points were almost turned bad by how much they exaggerated them. Maybe that's why I was more drawn to Jackie even if she isn't like me. I felt more like they didn't over play the personality traits with her.
I also wasn't a big fan of the "hero" of this show so that goes back to your original question! See - so tough!
But Kelso is pretty! And this totally explains your books. Yowzer on the heroes!
Kelso?!? hahaha
Hi Jill! I agree - heroes have to be worthy of our love (and lust!) And then there's the ones who sneak up out of nowhere and steal our hearts
Hi scapegoat! Good thoughts! I didn't think about the fact that it might be the way Donna's character is written than has me gravitating toward Jackie.
So....now you have to fess up. If you didn't like the "hero" (Eric?) which of the guys did you like??? (I'm still waiting for someone to choose Fez :))
I adore Eric--he's hilarious; and I liked to think I was more like Donna--but I had a huge crush on Hyde. In the worst way. Eric is the boy you could try stuff with and you're both new together; but Hyde was the boy that looks like he has some skills he brought to the table, which incidentally is where you'd be fooling around because it's Hyde....
Heroines. I think I do prefer heroines who are more "like me"--because heroines who are overconfident, too beautiful and know it, and have no sexual morals for their time period PISS ME OFF. (Mind you the male version of these traits doesn't bother me. Only the women. I'm sexist apparently.) BUT I have read books where the beautiful, confident girl has been someone I could identify with--but the writer was able to show the reader the character's vulnerabilities. So long as the character has a soft underbelly--I can typically identify with them. Superhero heroes and heroines do not appeal to me ever.
And I so wish Jackie and Hyde had stayed together.
*LOL* I can see the little crush on Kelso. Esp towards the end when he became a daddy--he sorta grew into a hero, finally, though he was still a bit of a goob. *LOL* That and he's insanely hot, even if he's an idiot.
But for me, it's still Hyde, then Eric, then Kelso.
Fez does not even register. *LOL*
Oh. Poor Fez. lol. Do you ever see him on Yo Momma?
You have a definite point about characters with no vulnerabilities. It's a problem with any character, but I think a bigger problem with a heroine (at least for romance). If she's already perfect and strong and wonderful, she doesn't need the guy on top of it all :)
Hal said:
...she doesn’t need the guy on top...
You did that on purpose, didn't you?
;)
I think Fez is hysterical. But not in the "I'd do him" kind of way. LOL! Oddly enough, my daughter reminds me of a female Kelso. Hope she grows out of that.
The catch with the heroine who is gorgeous and knows it is that I see more people complaining about the heroine who is gorgeous but doesn't realize it. As if she doesn't have a mirror or doesn't believe all the guys who have hit on her over the years.
I'm more apt to believe in the beautiful heroine who has either played down her looks and her personality has made her more invisible. Or the one who doesn't know how to play up her strengths. But I'm fine reading a heroine who knows she has it going on as long as she has other flaws/faults.
"Hal said:
…she doesn’t need the guy on top…
You did that on purpose, didn’t you?"
Bwwwaaahhhaha. I didn't even notice that
Very interesting theory, Hal! I haven't really thought of it before. I think I'm in the "really have to like the hero, but the heroine not so much" camp. It definitely makes it a much better reading experience if I like and understand both, but I know I've read and liked books where I kinda wanted to strangle the heroine... and I've put down books where the hero pisses me off.
Ter, I sympathize with you on the kiddo watching it. My kids started last year and it is on all the time in my house now. I was tempted to turn it off but the hubby stopped me - mostly cause he LOVES it. And the funny thing is that I'm all worried about the sex on the show and I think my kid's favorite character is Red. They love him and laugh hysterically whenever he comes on. Same with Friends - they've been watching a lot of that and they are all over the relationship between Joey and Chandler. Although my kids are little older than kiddo - 14 and 16.
I'm at the point where I don't want to censor them anymore. When I remember what I used to sneak off and watch I figure it ain't gonna kill them. Although my worst transgressions where Monty Python and Soap. With cable - they can see a lot worse stuff!
And Hal and Donna I'll take the winner for Hyde!!!! :) Fez DRIVES ME UP THE WALL! I can't stand him.
It's weird, Irish. Sex was a total open topic in my house growing up and I can't remember ever not knowing the details. But I didn't raise kiddo that way. Not that she can't ask me anything, but it wasn't "out there". When I tried to give her "the talk" about a year ago, she freaked at about 2 sentences in and didn't want to hear anymore. LOL!
I know there are some jokes she doesn't get, but she's bound to figure it out soon enough. At least this way she can learn some fun innuendo along the way.
Irish - I think Joey and Chandler's friendship was the best part of Friends. Chandler's facial expressions mixed with Joey's screw-ups are hysterical.
I'll likely feel very differently when I have a 16 year old, but I sort of think that the sex on That 70's Show is more benign than all these shows on ABC Family about pregnant girls and whatnot.
And I'm with you - I'm more likely to suffer through a heroine I find annoying than a hero.
Ter - I think there is such a thing as a beautiful heroine who doesn't know it, but there needs to be some major explanation (abusive past relationship, weird childhood thing, etc). Cause it *can* happen, but certainly doesn't at the rate it happens in contemporary romances. And yes, if she knows she's a hottie, she's got to have some major flaws to compensate.
You're right about the ABC Family shows. We don't watch those. I'm not a fan of the "after-school special" style of those series.
Now that I think about it, I have a much harder time writing the heroine than the hero. I can't get her motivations straight, or at least get them clearly across to the reader.
Maybe it's the "women are complicated/men are simple" thing. When I'm asked why my hero does something, I can say, "Because he's a man" and everyone goes "Oh, yeah, right." Asked the same question about my heroine, I'll say, "Because she just does" and get back, "But WHY??"
Drives me nuts because I rarely have an answer. At least not a simple one.
:)
My mom was bitching to me about how much sex is on "Pretty Little Liars." I was like, "THEN STOP WATCHING CRAP!!" haha.
You know, now that you mention it, the heroine's motivation is more of a struggle for me to. I have this one sex scene -- it took me forever to get the motivation right for why the heroine went through with sex. The hero - he's a guy. He wants sex. With her, it's all "why this guy, why this point in their relationship, why right now?" Uggghhh.
It is interesting to comtemplate the whole hero/heroine thing. When I write, I identify with the heroine. When I read? Nope, again, I find myself thinking of the secondary characters as the ones I identify with. I think...I consider myself very much an observer of the drama and not part of it? Sort of the person people confide in???
And of course Hyde was the most interesting hero...he had the best lines!
Happy b-day, Marn!
I drive Hellie nuts like that. I watch too much reality TV and the people will tick me off.
Me: These jerks on Top Shot are making me so mad. Gah!
Hellie: THEN TURN THE DAMN CHANNEL!
Me: But I can't look away!!! Besides, this is a recorded show.
Forgot to say Happy Birthday, Marn! Anything special planned (besides Mickey Mouse!)?
Yeah, I guess it could be lots worse. They don't watch anything on primetime. My daughter haughtily says it is all crap! LOL
Castle might be the only scripted show left that I watch. I recorded but never watched White Collar all summer. Didn't like how the writers ended the previous season. Right now, I'm not too keen on the baby twist they threw into Bones so I'm still deciding if I want to bother going back to that one.
But I'm always in for Project Runway and Top Chef.
For me, "identify" implies that the character and I share one or more crucial aspects. If I identify with the character, I really care about what happens to them and these are the stories and characters that stick with me--the keepers. Usually, I'm drawn to characters who are struggling to fit in or who are outsiders.: I identify with Lilo of Lilo and Stitch; Hiccup of How to Train Your Dragon; and Dexter from the television series.
As far as That 70s show goes, I identify with Hyde most because of his sardonic sense of humor. I also think he's hawt, which must mean I have a thing for myself. Or something.
Often, I can barely relate, much less identify with romance novel heroines. (Probably I just need to read more romance.) Consequently, even if I love the hero, the story never makes it beyond "entertaining but forgettable." As Donna said up thread, I guess I really want the heroine to be worthy of the hero.
On that note, what romances have you read where you really loved the heroine?
Ter - they get me with the competition-style shows. I need to know who wins, so I keep watching. Bastards.
Second - so here's the question. Say you read a book and fall in love with the secondary character. Then, in the authors next book, the character that was originally secondary is now the hero/ine . . . do you still find yourself gravitating toward the new secondary characters, or do you identify more with the hero/heroine in that particular case?
I'm just curious -- I think there are a lot of readers who identify heavily with the secondary characters. I think every how-to-write book I've ever read includes dire warnings of letting your secondary characters get too big, because they can easily take over the story.
I'm infuriated by the baby twist on Bones. I can't decide either.
And for some reason, Burn Notice hasn't held the same appeal to me this season. Maybe its because there's no angst left between Michael and Fiona.
See! You can't put them together and still keep the tension/conflict going for long. Actually, I think I read Crusie say the writing has dropped off this season as well.
The Bones thing is wrong. Super genius. They've stayed apart for YEARS. One night of consolation over the death of an intern (of sorts) she wasn't even that close to before that episode and BOOM. A baby.
I call bullshit.
Hey Kirby - I missed you in my replies!
That's interesting that you find it harder to relate to romance heroines. And now that you ask, every great romance I can think of off the top, I think of the hero, not the heroine :)
p.s. - I LOVE Lilo!
ter - I think it was the BOOM that pissed me off most. After years of tension, we got no real set up, no real preparation. Just . . . that. Five years I've watching that show waiting for the two of them to get together. That was NOT the payoff I was waiting for! lol.
But I agree that when you build a show on sexual tension, you sort of write yourself into a corner at some point.
I missed Pat too. There are few books I can think of that the heroine comes immediately to mind. In fact, there are only two authors I think of. SEP and Crusie. I adore Min in BET ME by Crusie. And Sugar Beth in SEP's AIN'T SHE SWEET is one of the best heroine turn arounds I've ever seen. Kleypas writes good heroines in her contemporaries, but then her guys are SO HAWT, the ladies have to be well-developed to even show up on the page.
The thing I've found with Crusie is what Hal mentioned earlier. (I think it was Hal.) The heroines become interchangable. All intelligent, a bit older, cynical, smartasses. Self-depracating and full of sarcasm. Grant it, there's plenty of Crusie books I haven't read and her storytelling is unbeatable, but not a lot of heroine variety in what I've seen.
That's it, Hal. It felt like an afterthought. Like it was time to sit down and plan the last two episodes of the season and they realized they needed a cliffhanger. That the idea "Let's have Booth knock up Bones" was the winner amazes me.
That the idea “Let’s have Booth knock up Bones” was the winner amazes me.
hahaha! yes, that's exactly what it felt like. I mean, come on. There HAD to be something better than that on the table.
Thanks for all the happy happy, ladies! :) I'm going to go all out and scrub the toilet. (Ok, I kid. That's what I *should* do but I"m going to take the day off. It's my birthday after all..... LOL!!)
I'm sorry I'm not good with this conversation, I think I watched one episode of That 70s Show.
As to interesting heroines, has anyone read Sherry Thomas's books? I just found them a couple months ago (I know, where have I been? She won the RITA. The last two years.) Her heroes AND heroines are all flawed but there's a lot of angst in her stuff. I've read a couple now and I thought they were great. They're each unique, I think.
No toilet scrubbing today, Marn! Those germs will still be there tomorrow. Make 'em wait. Better yet, find someone else to do the scrubbing. (I'm thinking the oldest could hold the brush. Convince him it's a game!)
Haven't read Sherry Thomas but I've heard good things about her writing. I know Janga loves her stories.
The toilet?? No. Not on your birthday :) I haven't read Sherry Thomas either - she's on my TBR list, and should maybe be scooted up a few notches
@Bo'sun. Maybe I'll give one of Kleypas's contemporaries a try. I recently read one of her historicals and found it okay, but forgettable.
I liked Bet Me because of Min. But yeah, Cruise's characters can be interchangeable. I find that's the case with most authors, in most genres. I guess as writers, we have certain archetypes and issues that we like to revisit time and time again.
I have this one sex scene — it took me forever to get the motivation right for why the heroine went through with sex. The hero – he’s a guy. He wants sex. With her, it’s all “why this guy, why this point in their relationship, why right now?”
Well, this is explain in Harry Met Sally. Women need a REASON to have sex. Men just need a PLACE.
On that note, what romances have you read where you really loved the heroine?
Letty from Dreaming (Jill Barnett) was a heroine I adored. I just adored her--always looking for the bright side, rarely let the hero's grumpiness get to her, confident when it mattered (about what love really was.)
I loved Clio from Wonderful because she was passionate about making ale and I identified with her about being obsessed/passionate about something to the point of hilarity.
Samantha from Yours Until Dawn (Teresa Medeiros).
There's been other heroines I've really liked in novels, but rarely ever more than the hero. *LOL*
Women need a REASON to have sex. Men just need a PLACE.
Hands down, best comment of the day.
I find that’s the case with most authors, in most genres. I guess as writers, we have certain archetypes and issues that we like to revisit time and time again.
Pat, I find this to be true as well, especially in writers who have been at it a long time. When I find an author I like, I tend to read everything from their back-list in a row, and then I get annoyed that the characters eventually become interchangeable. It's like being excited about a huge cake, eating the whole thing, and then feeling queasy for hours.
Right now I could be convinced with very little reason.
Just sayin'.... It's all a matter of perspective. And timing.
Some authors manage more variety in their heroines. There's short and tall, dark hair and light hair, quiet and bold, confident and unsure, shy and outgoing. Rarely do you find this much variety in heroes. Tall > always. Dark hair > majority of the time (I think.) Confident > a must!
The only real difference with heroes is blue collar and white collar, and even then, that white collar guy better be capable of changing a tire. Or building a deck.
Right now I could be convinced with very little reason.
And the REASON for that is because it's been some time. Like SOME time. Not like a man's version of SOME time, which was YESTERDAY, but actually SOME TIME. That is motivation we can all understand.
A white collar guy who can build a deck? Are you HIGH? You say I have fantasy issues.
What you want is a blue collar man who isn't a redneck. That's slightly more reasonable to attain.
When I find an author I like, I tend to read everything from their back-list in a row, and then I get annoyed that the characters eventually become interchangeable. It’s like being excited about a huge cake, eating the whole thing, and then feeling queasy for hours.
I do the exact same bloody thing. Julie Garwood. All her heroes are the broody, silent warrior type--then I get annoyed none of them are charming. Hellllooooo. I guess one or two of them could be called gregarious, but on the whole, they're silent and broody.
LET ME HAVE MY FANTASIES!!!
Then you have to stop giving me crap about my "THE ONE" fantasies!
Wait, we're arguing over who's fantasies are the most realistic? LOL
I knew I shouldn't have left you guys alone this long. . .
I do not give you crap! Donna, tell her. I don't give her crap about that "THE ONE" stuff. And I was only referring to men in FICTION in my fantasy. *sticks out tongue at Hellie*
*grabs Hellie by one arm and Bo'sun by the other*
Okay, girls. Tell each other you're sorry. No, not like that. Say it like you mean it. In the immortal words of Ari Gold on Entourage, "let's hug it out, bitches". LOL
Hellie, did you read Ashley's post the other day on H&H about not believing in "the one"?
I just had a flashback to my childhood when as a punishment my mother made my sister and I sit close together on the couch. LOL!
The problem is I'm FREEZING. Hellie knows this. My heater died yesterday and my.....*cough* coworker failed to order my new one until today. AFTER I reminded her. So I'm cold and I'm not pretty when I'm cold. (Okay, I'm never "pretty" per se, but when I'm cold it's even worse.)
I missed that one. Link please! (I'm also lazy when I'm cold...)
I'm cold too, which doesn't make me happy since it feels like freakin' November, not September. Grrr.
Here's the link: http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2011/09/the-myth-of-the-one-true-love
Now you need to go to Starbucks for me. LOL
I'll get right on that. Watch your mailbox.
It's not actually cold outside. We're pushing 90 so it still feels like August. It's just cold in here. *points at her office*
Off to follow the link. (And head to Starbucks, of course...)
Hellie, did you read Ashley’s post the other day on H&H about not believing in “the one”?
Yes, I did, and though she has a point, I still think she's wrong. *LOL* No, I really do love romances where people find love again and I prefer that they loved the person before--and that that love doesn't get marginalized, but...but...I still have that little wish fantasy to be someone's one and only. It's insane, but no more so than wishing a white collar man will build me a deck.
Wow, take a pause, walk the dog, take damp laundry to laundromat to dry since dryer died...and bam!
Okay, when secondaries take over do I still find myself captivated? Spin offs do nothing for me. On TV. With books? I'm thinking! I've read this in a few things and nope, once they take center stage I'm seldom as captivated...
Gods, I'm so shallow!
Now, girls...there are ways to continue a story with heat! I'm enjoying the Michael and Fe stuff on Burn Notice. (I watch the show for Sam anyway, so I'm not as involved in the M&F stuff.) I'm waiting to see what they do with Bones. I wish I'd seen the end of The Mentalist because he got to kill the seriel killer who killed his family...
Let's all chip in and buy the Bo'sun a work blanket. One that is pink with sock monkeys on it.
God, I hope that heater comes soon. You'd think her office chair was made of ice the way she carries on.
Hellion - My white collar husband built me a deck. Poured a concrete patio, too. Cut down some trees... AND he can fix my computer!
The man has an MBA and a BA in Math/Computer Science.
A blanket at work would be nice. It's have to be one of those snuggies so she can still type.
And stop bragging about your husband. You act like the man could save you from death--oh, wait, he did--still, stop trying to make the rest of us feel bad.
Here we go! We could get her this one!
http://www.uncommongoods.com/product/sock-monkey-blanket?utm_medium=shopping+sites&utm_source=pricegrabber&utm_campaign=18323
I have a hot pink snuggie I could loan out!
sorry, my white collar husband built me a helluva deck too :) But in our case, I saved his life instead of him saving mine (I'm getting a new tattoo out of that one - he was pretty grateful. I mean, I only got him to the ER 30 minutes before his appendix burst, so I feel like I could have done a WAY better job on that one, but still.....)
Anyway, my point here is that Chance, I don't think it's shallow that the characters don't still captivate you when they take center stage. I find that fascinating because half the time, the whole reason for writing the second book is that readers loved the secondary character. Hmmm.......I wonder how common that is.....any ideas anybody?
I still have that little wish fantasy to be someone’s one and only
Me too. :) I even have a trilogy based on this, and it's one thing I find very appealing in romance.
Terri, I was about to give up on White Collar, but I'm glad I didn't. They sucked me back in.
Does anybody watch Suits? I think that's a great show, with fun characters, and an interesting "bromance" thing going on like in White Collar.
Ha! SEE!!! Thanks, Mo.
I think your "The One" and the "The One" Ashley is talking about are two different things. You should always be "The One and only" for the one you're with. Everyone deserves that. But in the case of people who lose a beloved spouse to something tragic, they can (eventually) find a new love. It won't be better or worse, just different. There can be more than one in a lifetime and 2nd guessing if the one you're with is the one for you written in the stars seems like a stressful way to go through life. I think that's what Ashley meant anyway.
The 2nd guessing part.
I want that blanket!!! (Feel free to keep your snuggies. Not a fan of those.)
Hal - What's your tattoo going to be?! I need to find someone to do mine, but it's going to be more expensive and painful than the first. So I keep putting it off.
They did, Donna? Fine. Kiddo and I will have to have a White Collar marathon one weekend soon. Haven't watched Suits, but it looks good. In fact, that's why I avoid shows these days. Because they look good and I'm trying to control my addiction. Must avoid the supliers.
I only watch a few shows, so they have to captivate me. The best ones right now seem to be on USA and TNT (and I can watch them online, even if they make me wait 30 days). I also LOVE Franklin and Bash, because there's nothing like smart-ass guys, even if they're attorneys, to make me all happy.
I don't watch any of these shows. *LOL* Not Bones, not White Collar, definitely not the reality TV...not my gig. I don't even watch Castle anymore; they frustrated me with the Beckett/Castle relationship.
Am looking forward to the playboy bunny show to see if it's good; and Pan Am. (Unfortunately the playboy one comes after a reality TV show, so not sure if I'll remember to switch over to watch it.)
I find that most novelist, when they take the secondary character and make them the numero uno, they lose the perspective that made the SC so interesting. I'm sure it can be done and it's been done well, but there has to be enough to support it's working...
I think the problem with secondary characters getting their own book is that when they're the secondary character, they don't seem to have big problems or be that neurotic (they seem to have it together), but once you give them their own story, they NEED a story--and it usually involves making them neurotic and silly as they fix their problems. They're not as suave. Because suave heroes are not who we want to read about--but then it turns out to be a problem due to that they're no longer the suave cool character they were.
Plus once they're the hero, the good lines go to the secondary character in that book--so not only are they just like everyone else, but they don't even have great dialogue anymore.
I tried to watch Bones, but couldn't get into it -- too many squishy sounds during those autopsies. Yecch. LOL
Donna - I can take the noises more than the graphic images, which is why I had to give up on CSI: Las Vegas.
I think that often happens with secondary characters, but not everytime. Eloisa James does a good job revealing the issues of her 2ndary characters before giving them the spotlight. I don't read enough other authors these days to know how well they do it. (Which is really bad on my part.)
I never set out to write series or connected books, but then 2ndary characters started informing me they were next. The good thing about knowing that fact now is that I'm having fun playing with them in the current story. One tries to steal every scene she's in, the other proves clueless in every scene and it's obvious he has some learning to do.
I hope I did a good job with secondary characters with the Kraken's Caribbean trilogy...but won't know until they get out there.
Biggest problem was more in sliding the primaries out of the picture enough...
And when will those be out again? *Hint Hint*
Yes! That's right! Book two, The Chameleon Goggles, will be released on October 20th! The exciting story of Captain Jezebel and her lover, Mick...and the answer to the eternal question... Can a pirate ship hold its own against a zepellin?
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