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Monday, February 14, 2011
What’s In a Name?
2nd Chance here, stepping in fer the Bo’sun, who is having some rough days, health wise…so I answered the call! It will be the Bo’sun on Friday!
Naming characters. I stumble a bit on this. I tend to like old fashioned sounding names, and I tend to reach for names that reflect a character’s background or personality.
But this doesn’t always ring right for me. I like old fashioned names and what I think of a certain name isn’t what someone else thinks. I want characters I like to have a name I like and associate with some key triggers. For me.
The problem with picking names this way is the simple problem that 1) that name has a meaning totally different than my association and that is what a reader is going to look up or 2) that name has a meaning totally different than my association because the reader has an association totally at odds with my association.
*blink, blink
No, I did mean what I said up there. It’s all about how I’m not terrible fond of characters named Tina. Why? I’m not sure, but I think it’s just how I wasn’t the cute little thing in school that the name Tina makes me think of. And I was reminded of this a lot. (Kids are naturally cruel, ya know?)
I’ve managed to defeat this problem for the most part. I’ve had relatives that just thinking of them makes me flinch away and grimace, and yet I can read their names in a book and not automatically hate the characters. But it takes work sometimes.
My Mom asked me a few weeks ago why I named my lead in The Kraken’s Mirror, Emily. And my reply? Well, no particular reason other than I wanted a nice old fashioned names and I have a fondness of names that end with a vowel sound. (Really, I do. Witness… Miranda, Ivy, Emily, Silvestri, Maura, Johnny…Leo, Tabitha, ) (I also seem to veer toward names that end in ‘S’ making the possessive case always an interesting thing to spell.)
Mom sort of sighed. “You know that was the name of Granny.”
I did not know that! At least not consciously. But I thought it a neat detail and I may start lying and say that’s where I got the name.
Yup, I like names like James, Thomas, Matthew, Lucas…Charles… Actually more for the men than the female. Other than Emily I tend toward names for the female characters be more traits driven. What do you think when you hear the name Jezebel? And when I tell you she was christened Jasmina but changed it herself? Ivy came from the vision of poison ivy. Miranda? Well, it’s a name I associate with magic. Not exactly sure why…
My first book has three females that play prominent roles. Miranda, Margaret and Mercedes. I didn’t even realize I’d started all three with an “M” until it was pointed out to me. (I’ve been working on new names for two of these ladies. I sorta like Christina for Margaret, or Virginia. Mercedes? Well, she’s a pirate and her name shortened is Mercy, and I loved the irony in that, so she’s been harder. She’s Spanish so I could go for something like Beneficia…something I can shorten to sound really opposite of how she is… How about Charity? I need to come up with a good Spanish sounding name that I can shorten to Charity… Where is that Spanish/English dictionary…?)
;-)
So, how do you pick names?
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71 comments:
How do I pick names? I look in the Bible. *slaps knee* I kill me.
I love Mercedes name. I wish you didn't have to change it. I don't mind if names are similar in a series, esp if the author actually makes the characters distinctive enough that you could imagine them any other name anyway. It's not like authors are any less likely to mess up dialogue tag associations with a different lettered name than one that was the same! I've seen it in both. *LOL*
I think max that authors should strive to make sure characters have different letters for the main characters of the book involved. Books beyond that, cut them some slack. I myself also love M names.
I tend to pick old fashioned names too. I like them better. I don't run into your problem of naming people after grandmothers though--my grandmother was Lucretia (Cratie rather than Lucy if you can believe it). Though...she probably shares similar characteristics with my Lucy now that I think on it. What a pistol.
My heroines' names have been thus far: Julia, Nellie, Emma, Olivia (Livie), Elizabeth, Maddie, etc. I lean toward the older names. I don't like the name Christina much either, much for the same reason you don't like it. *LOL* I tend to avoid books with heroines named Jessica or Tiffany--just because it went through that popular phase and everyone I know with that name is like 12. *LOL*
I like manly man names: Jake, James, Jack, Charles, Emmett, Garrett, Broderick--et al. Basically I like my manly names to have consonants; and my heroines names to have vowels. *LOL* Compliment each other.
How do I decide? I flip through a baby book because I like to rely on meaning. A baby name meaning is probably one of the most important things to me. I mean, once you've been saddled with the name FRANCES, you tend to believe that name meaning MUST have something to do with who you are and why you got that horrible name. And what do you know? It does.
Actually partially I think my mother wished she was French. She didn't mind admitting we had English ancestors, but refused to acknowledge any of our Scottish or Welsh ones. I think she wanted to trace us all the way back to Normandy--so I got the Frenchy name.
Frances means FREE; and Marie means BITTER or REBELLIOUS--and depending on the day, both of those meanings are exactly right.
I remember when I got my first baby name book for the express purpose of writing. I was with a guy friend from college (just a pal)--and he was buying the ice cream at the store and I saw the book and he said, "Get it" (meaning he'd buy) and the cashier asked if we'd been pregnant long. Which goes to show I have ALWAYS looked pregnant. Also means you should never let your guy pal buy you anything to do with babies unless you want a bunch of awkward questions.
Wow, feeling chatty today, Cap'n!?
I do like male names with nice hard consonants...and I do wish I could kick the habit of the 's' at the end of names. I also tend to like the full name. Thomas, not Tom. James, not Jim. Charles, not Charlie.
I can understand the wondering about why Frances... Honestly, the first time I remember hearing that name is either St. Francis of Assissi or...Frances, the talking mule. God, we loved those movies when we were younger!
I've looked at baby name books, but I'm more likly to look at the racial origin of the name and sorta ignore the meaning. Which I know I do at my own peril...
I do love Mercy the pirate...and she's so much a real pirate...memorizes the plans of ports, where their fresh water is...she takes her business very seriously!
I'm not sold on Christine...I need a nice simple English name... Can't be Katharine or Abigail. What about Lillian? (I do like flower names!)
Interesting topic. I'm not sure I've analzyed my choices in quite this fashion. :) A character's name usually just comes to me, but there have been a couple of times when it just wasn't right, and it affected their personality. LOL I couldn't write their story when they didn't have the right name.
I'm not fond of female characters who end up with male-sounding nicknames when their names are shortened. It makes it harder for me to keep track of which character is which. LOL
Terri, hope you're feeling better soon. :)
Names are simply one of those topics I don't mind talking about at length. But I can go back to drinking and being uncivil iffen you like.
PS, great topic, Chance.
But I can go back to drinking and being uncivil iffen you like.
LOL!
Names, huh? I don't know. I pick names I am not going to mind typing a hundred bajillion times.
Ok ok, that's not necessarily true. This time, I feel like I gave my names more thought.
I liked James as my hero but then I realized, in previous drafts, that he seemed really stuffy. And after a bit of a character epiphany one night, I realized his name is James Cassity, but that his friends call him Cass. So, Cass he is now.
My heroine is a little more complicated. I named her Annabelle. She was Anna or Annabelle when she was a vicar's daughter, in a younger more innocent life. Now she's Belle, which I think is a name that's sensual but tinged with innocence. Sort of a siren name. Perfect for a mistress/courtesan. And since Belle struggles with the two halves of herself through the story--the prim, virtuous vicar's daughter and the mistress/courtesan--I think the name fits her.
I hope the Bo'sun feels better soon too.
LOL - just read Donna's comment. She's going to hate my heroine names!
I think I'm a big fan of nicknames. My heroine is Veronica, but the hero and her family call her Ronnie. The other man in the book (i.e. her stalker) insists on calling her Veronica.
I liked having Ronnie as a name for a petite, delicate woman but who has a core of toughness. I also liked the play between characters that call her Ronnie and the others who insist on Veronica - how she reacts to that and how it shapes how we view those characters is interesting to me.
I liked having Ronnie as a name for a petite, delicate woman but who has a core of toughness.
I actually like this reasoning, Scape. :)
Donna - It's good to have things you won't do! I have a character in my newest WIP, named Beverly. she hates her name, wishes she'd been born a boy so insists everyone call her Lee. In her case, I really thought long and hard how I wanted a girly name that when shortened would sound more masculine!
But I can see not wanting it that way would be a rule, too. I'm not really fond of names that could be a man or woman, though I use one in a particular book. Like Lindsey. I've known girl Lindseys and boy Lindseys...
Hellion! Not at all, glad to find a topic we can chatter about! You, unsocial? Perish the thought! ;-)
Scape, don't worry! Ronnie doesn't sound masculine to me. It's more the Alex or Sam type nicknames, and it's more about my ability to get too confused. LOL "Wait, who said that? Is this a M/M novel and I didn't realize it?" :)
And just to clarify: I didn't say I wouldn't like or wouldn't have a character with a female name that converts to a male-sounding nickname. LOL I said "I'm not fond of". :)
I like the way you think, Marn. And yeah, when I use James (hee, hee. I like the way that sounds!) he is a bit stern and stiff. (I kill myself! *chortle!)
Sorry...I really do need to edit that story one of these days...
I like the shortened Cass...makes me think of Cassidy, which is a name I can see me using one of these days.
*scribble, scribble
Annabelle. Yeah, that works well for the character you're describing for exactly the reasons you cite! Makes me think of a perfume commercial, "Experienced, but not too far from innocence..." Or something like that...
Scape - I think you stumbled on a good tactic! I know with Miranda, at one point she stumbles onto a parallel universe where she is known as Randy, and the way she is fits it perfectly in that world!
The inability to use the prefered name would completely go a long way in showing a control freak at work!
It's like with Christine. I think of Christy as a nickname, not really Tina. I have a niece we all know as Tina, on her birth cert it's Christina, but lord love a duck, I don't think we've ever used that!
I was never Mo, because the second Maureen in the neighborhood got the nickname while I stayed Maureen... How a name nicks is interesting...and whether it's used or not says a lot about a character!
Donna - Is this a M/M novel and I didn't realize it!?
Wow, someone is struggling with a plot line if that isn't clear to you! But I know what you mean. I remember an episode of Quantum Leap where Sam leaps into a bathtub and hears someone calling him and thinks. "Ah, I get to be called my real name!" Then he sees himself in a mirror and he's a woman. A real gorgeous woman!
Things like that can be a fun part of the the name or just get in the way. Yeah, Sam, Alex... wow, you named the two I could think of!
I was astounded by one online discussion during which several published authors said they sometimes wrote the first draft with the hero and heroine nameless, designating then in the ms. only as Hero and Heroine. I could never do that. My characters have names before I write the first scene. Sometimes the names are just there, as they were with Max and Dori. Max emerged almost whole at the very beginning. He told me his name and Dori's.
When I have to change a name, I almost never am satisfied with the change. The heroine of book 2 has had four names, and I still think of her by the mame she had in the beginning. I changed her name from Scott because of the initial letter rule and to avoid gender confusion, but I have yet to find a replacement name with which I'm truly happy.
Janga - I've changed names of characters only when I didn't 'feel' the name. I can see Margaret changing without a problem, but Mercedes is killing me and I may say 'hang the rule' and leave her be. Though a pirate named Charity would work also...
I can't see leaving them nameless the whole time, that would be like... "Then X took Y into his arms, she shivered. 'Oh, Y!'"
Eh! Hard to feel much without names.
Hey, how come no one is helping me with this new name for Margaret? Come on, a nice English sounding name... Any ideas?
(Yes, I do want everyone to help me with this! I'm lazy, and tired of looking! Nothing sounds right...sigh!)
Well...since things seems to be slowly moving this morn...I'm gonna get the dog out early and head for my local caffeine tavern! Back in a bit!
I'm finally checking in. Thanks again, Chance, for steping in. I feel horrible since Santa actually sent me a blog but it was well after I'd gone to bed. :) Anyone else want to give up a day this week?
I'm going to ignore Marn's comments on the name Belle since that's one my daughter goes by. :)
I'm with Janga, my characters show up with their names and introduce themselves. I don't look up meanings, but I do go back to the year they would have been born and make sure the name matches the time.
When I named my daughter Isabelle in 1999, many people told me it was old-fashioned and she wouldn't want to use it. In her 5th grade class, there were five Isabelle's. Ha!
I do like the name Lillian. That was my grandmother's name and she was born just outside London in the early 20th century. So that works for what you want. And you can shorten it to Lilly, but somehow my grandmother's nickname became Mickey. No one alive today knows how that happened.
Micky? That is fascinating. Like Hellie's Lucretia being Cretia... I know some nicknames have nothing to do with the first name...but wow.
Hope both of you are feeling better today!
Now, I have a villain I named Isabella! I like the name of my neighbors daughter, too. Sophie.
I have a secondary couple in my MS named Lucille and Duke. They're both in their 30s, but Hellie says she thinks of them as some elderly couple because of their names. *shrugs* That's their names.
There's one story that says Nanny had a crush on some guy named Mickey back when she and my grandfather first met. So he started calling her that to tease her, and it stuck. But I've no idea if that's the truth.
I do like girls with boy nicknames, but then I would. I am Theresa but go by Terri. ;)
I’m going to ignore Marn’s comments on the name Belle since that’s one my daughter goes by.
Your daughter is Isabella, which is the Spanish form of Elizabeth and means "God's solemn oath"--it's a good vicar's daughter name, but not a good courtesan. *exchanges look with Marn to reassure her that it is but we won't tell Bo'sun*
Incidentally I was unaware Uncle Pete was William Archer until I was like 20 or so...I'm not sure how many people knew his real name.
My Uncle Pete's real name was William Archer. You don't want to know how he got the name "Pete" and it had been my mother, I'm not sure I would have ever forgiven her.
Actually, she's Isabelle which is the French version. LOL! But I appreciate the reassurance!
My mom is Joni but it's pronounces Johnny. We have a thing with females having male names, I guess.
Well, Lucille is a pretty standard name. Yeah, it's sorta old fashioned but these things are so cycle driven! I wonder which came first, Lucinda or Lucille?
Duke is his real name or a nickname? Or a title? ;-)
Wait, my villain is God's oath? And isn't Isabelle, just Isabelle....without the a?
Sorry, Isabelle. You know me and anything French.
Man, Hellion...such a tease! Now I'm wrapping my head around how Pete can be so scandolous!
I use the name Archer as a surname!
Okay, if Isabella is Spanish, Isabelle is French...what is Isabeau?
Scandalous? I need a spell check for WordPress...
Duke is his name. I admit, it's different. Lucille is just Lucille. That's how she showed up in my head. A tiny thing with big curly red hair and freckles, but tons of attitude and energy. She's a PE teacher who wasn't all that athletic in school except for track. She's sorting of a walking contradiction.
I need to find food before my doc appt. Time for some dry toast. Yum.
Isabel is the Spanish spelling. Isabeau is also a French spelling. I toyed with that one but was already pushing it with the ex on Isabelle.
Ahhh, I see: Isabella is ITALIAN. Isabelle/Isabel/Isabeau is French. And I believe the Elizabeth is English. Not sure how Isabel got to be Elizabeth, but whatever. Means the same.
I liked Isabeau in LadyHawke. You guys ever see that movie?
*googles again* Sorry, Elizabeth is Hebrew. Should have figured that one out.
I first heard Isabeau with the movie "Ladyhawke" but I really liked it. Hence, the cat's now Isabeau!
So, what did the ex want to name her?
Ok, who owes who a coke? I loved Ladyhawke and have it on DVD!
I always figure my surname is some Filipino version of Elizabeth... She was queen for a good long time, right?
I posted it, so you owe me a PEPSI, not some coke. I also have LadyHawke on DVD.
Elizabeth I was queen for 40 years, give or take. The Golden Era it was called. Mostly I think because the church shakeup and wars with Spain were so turbulent before she became queen I think and when her sister was queen first. I don't know. I think it's sorta ironic it was a Golden Era. *LOL* Seemed pretty turbulent to me.
Ex wanted to name her Cheyanne. Uh...no. I'm off!
Okay, a pepsi it is! I was writing when you're post went up!
Golden Age...did they get all rich in this era from all the turbulence?
Hmmm. What about Joanna? Isn't that an old Enlish name...? Yes, still looking for that just right name!
Cheyanne - Well, it's a pretty name but not sure how that was considered okay but Isabeau would have been pushing it...
I also use the name Brandy in one of my books. And Lionel. And Linus. I like L names! Oh, and Ruby. Seems, upon reflection, I like the men to have nice proper names and the women have names of more interest and meaning!
What a surprise the country singer wanted to name her after a Garth Brooks song. *LOL*
2nd, they probably did. I think when things calm down a little--not fighting amongst yourself, you tend to get a little wealthier (since you're not spending all your money on war), so maybe that's the reason why. Or maybe it's the golden age because it's comparative. *LOL* Or because they wore so much gold trim on their clothes.
I believe Joanna is an old English name, yes. Let me google. So's Alice, but that doesn't sound very piratey.
I don’t like the name Christina much either
*delicate sniff*
I see how you are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Kent
Sorry, Joan of Kent. Still a corker.
Yep, babynames.com says Joanna is an English origin. So would Joan, I think. There's the Joan of Arc (French), but there's that famous English Joan, Princess of Wales...or something. She was a corker.
You're about as mean as all the Christinas I knew in school--stealing all the good looking boys and making us homelies jealous! *LOL*
Are you getting well yet, Sin?
I tend to favor names that are shortened into nicknames. Are quick to remember. Affectionate. Those sorts of things. I've always been called by my shortened given name and never my full name (except professionally) so my characters tend to have the same name qualities. It's never about what the name means to me. And the characters tend to give themselves names. Like Kiki's name. I struggled to find out what Kiki's given name was since she refuses to go by it. It's like pullin' teeth with her. I have Tory (Victoria), Kiki (Kiernan), Dex (Dexter), Ash (Ashton)... The list goes on and on.
I'm leaning toward Joanna...I'll need to look up more stuff on it. Joan of Kent, eh! I'll check out the link.
Sin - I wondered if you'd stop by and see that little slam... Wasn't me!
Today is the first day I feel halfway decent. Manda called me last Saturday to ask if we were having a meeting and I told her only if she wants a nasty case of the flu. lol
But I have to be well before Saturday. Saturday I leave for Phoenix again and can't drag any disease around gramma.
Hmmm...I named a male Keirnan in my Kraken book... but I think I spelled it funny...
I also used Max, short for Maxwell... So I get the shortened name thing.
I like the name Ash, it is very evocative. And thanks to the show Dexter, so is Dex!
Dex has always been Dex. Dex and Kiki were my first two original character inventions. Kiki was a con-artist in the beginning, and Dex was the computer geek Kiki's gramma was always trying to set her up with. They've evolved... what can I say.
Ash is usually a shortened name for a girl, but for Ash, it suits him. And the way Sadie whispers it. It's perfect.
Sounds good, don't take disease to grandma's house.
I posted a cupid for you on Sunday, btw... ;-)
There does seem to be some nasty cold/virus things going around!
Joan of Kent sounds like she lived a very busy life! Like three husbands! Seems a bit unusual for that era, but I'm not a historian, so maybe not.
I'll look at cupid when I come back to lunch. Don't be surprised if he gets ice picked.
Hate valentine's day. *grumble, grumble*
Sin, you'll like this cupid...trust me!
Nah, I think it's only unusual she didn't die in childbirth--I think we're used to seeing one guy with about three or four wives and 20 kids, most of which die. But she just happened to outlive some of hers; and she was a higher up, so when she married without permission, they canceled that marriage and made her marry who they wanted. I think that was how it went. As you say: she was pretty active. As I said: quite a corker.
I'm sure there were more women with 2-3 husbands apiece. :) If they were willing to go through the trouble of it again. Not a lot of choices though; you sorta needed a guy to help foot the bill with stuff. Though I think some women were able to make livings making ale??
From what I read, there was husband number one, done in secret...so her parents went and married her to number two, thinking he was number one. Then number one came back from the war and she petitioned the pope to recognize marriage number one. Which he did, so she left husband number two and went back to number one...until he died. When she married number three.
Whew! Busy lady!
*very over dramatic fist pump jump in air*
Yes! Cupid is dead! Yeeeehaw!
She's fictional rather than historical and belongs to the merchant class rather than the nobility, but Dame Alisoun, Chaucer's Wife of Bath, has been widowed five times as well as having enjoyed "oother compaignye in youthe." And she's looking for number six. LOL She's wealthy because her three old husbands were wealthy and she herself is a successful 15th-century businesswoman. Her prayer is for "Housbondes meeke, yonge, and fressh abedde, / And grace t'overbide hem that we wedde."
Given the very young age of first-time brides and the fact that girls were often given in marriage to much older men, Alisoun's experience may not have been far removed from the reality of some women.
I'm getting really tired of being treated like a pin cushion. Just sayin'.
I shorten Nathan to Nate, does that count? The next hero is Joe and if someone called him Joseph, he'd probably punch them. He's a cranky one.
I'm struggling a bit with the heroine of the next book, but I think I've settled on the name Melissa. She started out at Julianna but then there was Julianna and Joe, so one had to go. Joe made it clear changing his name wasn't an option.
My problem is, when I change the name, the appearance changes in my head. Julianna was delicate and fragile, pale and quiet. Melissa doesn't appear that way to me, but I need those qualities in the heroine. I'm still debating. I need to check out some name meanings and follow Hellie's lead.
Sorry you're sick, Sin. We're in the same boat over here except mine isn't the flu. I'm hoping Kiddo's stays just a cold.
Janga - Yeah, I guess I was figuring all those young wives died in childbirth! But if they survived then it would make sense that they'd keep outliving the old husbands!
Yes, Sin - Just for you...
I like Nate. I have a Nathan in my newest and he's likely to stay a Nathan, but Nate would be a viable name. I took Michael and made it Mick! I like the hard consonants at the end of male names... Hmmmm!
Sorry, more needles, eh!? Well, if they get an answer or five, at least it's worth it!
At least the people who have been sticking me with these needles keep getting it on the first try. That's helpful.
I did a name search today and had little luck. Still considering...
What about Melinda? Though I think a Melissa could be frailish. Or there are flower names. Jocelynn. (I know I spelled that wrong...and it's sorta like a flower...the joaquil? Dang memory!)
"...Hmmm…I named a male Keirnan in my Kraken book… but I think I spelled it funny…"
REALLY?!?! You honest-to-Gosh named him Keirnan? Because that is my hero in Treasures of Venice and everyone wanted to spell it Kiernan, or Kieran. Um, NO! He showed up in my imagination as Keirnan and he stayed that way.
Of course, this is from the woman who is Loucinda with an "o" so that should tell you plenty (besides the fact that my mother was a bad speller). :-P
AC
How 'bout Concepcion for the Spanish girl's name?!?! That one always cracked me up.
Soledad and Dolores are also pretty common Spanish girl's names that offer lots of possibilities for nicknames.
AC
Okay, mine was Keitran. Geez, I forgot my own character's name
*eye roll
I think the way you spell Loucinda is an old fashioned spelling... the other Maureen in my neighborhood was actually spelled Mareen, but pronounced Maureen. Just trying to be similiar but not a copy cat!
I need to get your Venice book! I have the other two, set in Ireland...
Weird spellings were "in" for awhile, but in my case, my mother honestly was a bad speller. :-P
Email me if you'd like an autographed copy of TToV. The setting may be Venice but my hero is still Irish!
AC
Auntie - I think I'm either sticking with Mercedes so I can use Mercy or go with Charity... I can have her shipmates call her Char... Bwah ha ha!
I need a nickname that will be ironic in some way. Or extremely fitting as in Char... Not sure yet... Don't intend to submit this book to my agent until later in the year, so I can let it mull around in me brain...
Well, ya could bring one with ya when you come down to speak to my local RWA and I'll but it offa ya!
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