When you just can't help taking things too far...
Perhaps.
Sometimes, this can be a very good thing. There have been times, while writing, that I've had an idea, and I've needed to stretch it. Maybe it's a bit of a cliched idea, maybe it's one that is only so-so. But it needs to grow. As a writer, I need to feel like I'm hovering just on that edge of, "is this okay?" "Can I really do this?"
Some of the most vivid, vibrant, stick-in-your-head-forever scenes are ones that take things just a bit too far.
A bit too far is a good thing.
And then there's those times that . . . well, it's no longer a good thing. When it's just plain absurd. That happens too. I tend to do this with craft books. I'll find something great in a how-to-write book, and I'll try to ruthlessly apply it to my writing. It usually doesn't end well, and I have to back off again.
Too far.
It happens in real life too. I've been collecting baby items around the house (little dude is due in February), and my father built me this stunningly beautiful changing table. I found a hamper to go in it that matches everything perfectly. Trouble is, you can only buy it in Australia. It's absurdly expensive to ship a clothes hamper from Australia (not to mention, taking things *a bit* too far. More than a bit? Well . . . sure). So I've spent weeks on Craigslist, emailing people all over the country, looking for this damn hamper. Finally found a guy in DC who will give me his used one for ten bucks. So yesterday, my sister-in-law and I make the 2 hour drive into DC, fight through rush hour traffic, manage to get all the way downtown, to pick up this hamper. It's beautiful. It's perfect. It's exactly the right shades of green and brown, with flowers and bunnies . . . . and it's an inch too wide to fit in the changing table.
I haven't told my husband yet that it doesn't fit. I'm waiting for him to stop laughing about me driving all the way downtown to pick it up. Then I'll explain that I need him to take apart the dowel rods and shave an inch off each.
Yeah, too far, too far. But in the end, it's going to be perfect. I can just feel it. I stretched and I pushed, and can legitimately be accused of taking things too far.
But sometimes, it just works, and you know it works.
Any scenes you've written, where you've gotten that feeling you might be stretching the boundaries a bit too far, but you know it's going to work? It just has to be that way for the story? Every done it and know you have to cut it, that it's just plain too far, and not in a good way? How about reading -- read something you thought maybe went too far, but that was the scene you still can still vividly recall years later?
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43 comments:
Wow. Uhm, you realize you're going to use that hamper for maybe a few months, right? At least you should be able to turn around and sell it for a prophet when you're done.
I'm the opposite, I don't take things far enough. I'm a half-ass it kind of girl. Not that I set out to be, I always set out to get things perfect. But they always come up short. Which isn't good when we're talking PLOT.
I'm not a fan of the over-the-top scenes in books, but it has to go pretty far to bother me.
I got a kick out of this, how devoted you were to getting something just perfect. And then for it to require adjustments besides. Ack! I would most likely not change it, at least not until the child was old enough to handle the tools itself. LOL
As for my stories--I probably will make people who read my stuff think I go too far, since my comedy can be a bit over-the-top. :) But I actually DO hold back, thinking it might be too kooky.
Have a great day, pirates. I'm off to work again. Very tired today, because I also worked last night til 11. I'll be back this afternoon.
This completely cracked me up. The hamper story read to me like:
Your personality + Natural nesting instinct = international shipping charges or laundry receptacle reconstructive surgery.
I only do this sometimes. I try to only push the envelope on really key scenes. Like the scene where my heroine was tortured by a demon in my last story. And the scene I just cut where my courtesan heroine was raped.
Dire situations make for interesting reading. But I try not to push the envelope every scene. I think that'd be emotionally exhausting.
Ter, I know, I know *g*
Over-the-top can go into melodrama real quick, which I'm not a big fan of either.
I can't really imagine you half-assing anything. I suspect this may be an issue of you not giving yourself enough credit *g*
Donna - too kooky? Nah! It's comedy! I love over-the-top comedy. Christie Craig and of course JE come to mind.
Have fun at work (well, sort of...as much as you can...)
Your personality + Natural nesting instinct = international shipping charges or laundry receptacle reconstructive surgery
Yep, Marn, that pretty much sums it up *g* Does it help that I know I'm being absurd? My house is a wreck of multiple rooms all being rearranged at the same time. Ugh.
I think pushing the envelope on a couple key scenes is good balance. Because it can go waaaay too far, and get exhausting. But a couple scenes...the really important ones...in those you can really pack some punch!
Hal - It's that over-the-top that makes me say, "Oh COME ON!" Like the end of that Four Feathers movie. Or that book where I flipped through 150 pages looking for the story and couldn't find a single page without sex on it. And it was an historical.
I wish this was a case of not giving myself credit, but it's true. If you saw the paint on the walls of my house, or the still unpacked condition of my room, of the messy state of my car, you'd know I'm not lying. LOL!
Oh, well, I half-ass it when it comes to cleaning too. And unpacking. I painted my dining room over thanksgiving, and two corners still need to be sanded down and touched up. Have I done it? Nope. All painting supplies have been sitting there untouched for weeks *g*
150 pages and not one didn't have sex? That's totally obnoxious. Where's the story? I definitely get frustrated when the story gets swallowed up by the melodrama. Or when an author makes the guy super angry over the slightest thing to make him seem "emotional." That's not emotional, that's belligerent, and it's annoying. lol. I tend to stumble on a lot of historicals like that (though mostly from early books in an author's career, which makes sense).
I went way over the top too when I had my one and only child -- who just turned 9! Hard to believe. But I bought about three wardrobes worth of maternity clothes and I think I had like three different kinds of strollers. I say, go all out without guilt...but don't forget to stock up on diapers! LOL
I love over the top in writing because it keeps my interest. I haven't written on my stories for a while, but I did go "over the top" in my theatre final presentation and got first place! I could hear the audience laughing but I thought at the time they were laughing at my hands shaking so much! I agree over the top is memorable. Somehow it worked and it's a risk worth taking. :)
Have a blast with the baby preparation!
Melissa - I had ONE pair of maternity pants and I wore them every day. LOL! See! Me no over-the-top.
Hi Melissa! I haven't gone over the top with maternity clothes (I'm like Ter - I found one pair of comfy jeans and called it done) but I think that's cause I'm hating being pregnant, and maternity clothes only remind me *g* I'm having a blast with baby decorations, though!
Good for you - first place! That's awesome, and apparently well worth the risk! That line of when it's memorable and when it's melodrama can be hard to finagle, but when you hit it, you know it (even if your hands were shaking *g*)
I'd answer your questions, but like your husband, I'm too busy laughing at your Nesting Stage. Hilarious. Yeah, it's going to be perfect. I'll hope you'll admire it before the kid arrives because that's after the kid arrives, I'm pretty sure these Martha Stewart moments are going to be over. You're going to go the Rachael Ray route and you're going to be grateful it got done at all.
But I haven't had a kid. I'm only speaking from my observations, not experience.
Taking my writing a bridge too far...I'm not sure I can think of anything per se in my own writing. I think the closest I've come to it is 1.) when I had a fight scene between two friends and the heroine, who never tells her friend how she really feels, finally just tells her off--and it was hard to write because the place where I was pulling from, was too close to home. I kept wanting to tell my character she couldn't say that to her best friend, she'll never forgive you; and 2.) my most over the top scenes were in my original Lucifer story. Drama, drama, drama--and at one point, the heroine dies and is separated from Lucifer (forever)--and Lucifer breaks down. There's a funeral. There's some tantrums. I really enjoyed writing those--I really did love the drama of it, but reading them I just think, "This is SO ABSURD." *LOL*
I think your blog is funny, but I don't think going TOO BIG is a problem. After all, characters are supposed to be larger than life dealing with larger than life issues. We're always coached to "MAKE IT BIGGER". You're only doing what is instinctively good writing. And I'm betting getting the best hamper for your baby to prove that you've prepared the best place to hang out makes you an instinctively good mother. :)
At least you should be able to turn around and sell it for a prophet when you’re done.
This sentence made me laugh hysterically because I had a sudden image of Hal exchanging her hamper for a real life John the Baptist to live in her house and eat locusts and honey.
Terri -- ONE pair? Impossible. LOL Unfortunately, I continued to wear my maternity pants way past having the baby! I loved maternity clothes...very odd, I know. LOL
And I loved Four Feathers. Pretty sure movie was based off a book--so if it was over the top with its ending, you'll have to take it up with its author.
eek, I gotta run to the dentist. Hellie, I'll reply fully when I get back, but yes, I'm insane, and I realize none of this hard-core decorating is going to help me get through the 4am feedings :) lol.
Damn it. Stupid spelling! In my defense, I'd already been up for an hour and a half FOR NO REASON when I wrote that comment. LOL! And had not had my coffee yet.
Melissa - I had to order those ones to find them. Can't remember from where, but they were adjustible with snaps on the sides so they'd grow with you, if you know what I mean. LOL! I might still have them in a drawer somewhere.
I have this habit of gravitating toward maternity clothes in stores. NOT because I want to be pregnant or even know they're maternity, I just like the styles and then feel stupid when I realize what I'm looking at.
I thought the "prophet" one funny too. I also read Hal's response a little wrong, but funny:
150 pages and not one didn’t have sex? That’s totally obnoxious. Where’s the story?
I read "where's the story?" like "where can I find it?" LOL
It's early. We're all cold. Brains go wonky. That's my theory.
My child ate every three hours round the clock, so you might want to add a 1am feeding to that too. :)
I love the hamper story, Hal! That was me - we just have to get the primary color border to match the primary color comforter and crib set! And the very patient DH just smiled and ran all over town looking for the freakin' border and put it up with a smile on his face! And of course that's why my daughter is so well adjusted and such a high achiever! LOL It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm totally with Marnee on the equation explanation. It's part you and part the whole craziness that is pregnancy.
I'm not sure if this applies to what what you're talking about, but as soon as I finished your blog the first over the top story/scene that popped into my head was from Ain't She Sweet by SEP. That whole book was over the top for me - made me uncomfortable, shift in my seat and keep saying "oh no, you're not really gonna go there are you?" And she did several times. The scene that sticks out is when Sugar Beth and Winnie are in HS and she lets all the boys in the girl's locker room. I kept thinking you can't keep showing us what a total b$%ch she is (pushing that envelope farther and farther) and expect us to like her or cheer her on. But she did and I loved her by the end of the book.
Great example, Irish. Though I never thought of that scene as over-the-top.
Okay, it's snowing like crazy outside so I'm heading home. Wish me luck. This could take a while.
Hal, I love the hamper story. I can see the whole series of scenes unfolding like a really great episode on a favorite sit com. Masterful!
I agree that the line between drama and melodrama can be hard to detect. On the other hand, I think it's easier to tone down a scene that goes too far than it is to punch up one that's bland because the writer held back.
Like Hellie, I had a vivid visual image with Ter's profit/prophet exchange--only I saw Hal, hamper at her side, checking out a room full of OT prophets, complete with robes, long white hair, and fiery eyes. LOL
We've all made similar errors, Terri. Just yesterday I read a sentence in an online devotional where the writer had intended to say a certain historical period lacked clock towers but omitted a crucial "l". You can imagine the visual image that error inspired.
Drive safely, Ter!
Janga, that's hilarious! Probably more so cause it was on a devotional site!
Yeah, drive carefully, Ter. We got another couple of inches here last night, but at this point it's the same old same old! What's really got us all nuts is the below zero temps! Have I mentioned lately, that I really HATE winter!
Yeah, I wasn't sure if that's what Hal was getting at, Ter - an author taking it to that uncomfortable level. I've had that happen a couple of times where you start squirming in your chair wondering where the author is going to take you and hoping it's not where you eventually end up. But the brilliance is when they take you there and it ends up being okay in the end. Make sense?
Over the top! HA! I scoff at over the top! I make obscene gestures in the general direction of over the top!
P'shaw!
Well, but there is overdone. I hope I don't overdo...
Hey, maybe that baby thing can be used for something else when the kid outgrows it!
(I don't know babies and it's all greek to me!)
I think some movies to go over the top, but the more absurd they are...well...it either turns into a triumph of B movies or tries to see itself as an A lister and sinks horribly...
I think over-the-top is probably a good thing to lean toward for beginnings especially, but then you have to deliver on your promises. I don't think I can sustain over-the-top but it might be fun to try!
I just found this blog Flogging the Quill http://www.floggingthequill.com/ that has an interestin challenge for a first page that compels turning on to the next. You can vote and see the results. On one I voted yes on the prologue and no on the first chapter. The news article hooked me in, but then it didn't even seem like the same story.
I'm going back to read some more of the submissions...yeah, I've got time on my hands that should go to writing! LOL But this is research! I need major help on my beginnings.
Geez. I seem to be skipping letters and words all over the place lately. Nope, no writing for me today! That's my excuse.
Irish - You're totally right, and probably the first to stick with Hal's topic. LOL!
I'm home! Took a freaking HOUR, but I'm here. Now I need a nap.
Glad you made it okay, Terri! Winter driving makes me a nervous wreck. Thank goodness I car pool for the 45 mile commute to campus!
And I'm sitting in incredible weather...blue sky, an ocean that is so still I could see the cliffs down the bay reflecting... Though we are due three days of rain starting tomorrow. And glancing out the window here at Starbucks, I see a bank of clouds heading ourway. Oh, well!
But snow! Brrrr!
I'm so sorry I've been MIA - but you guys have been having fun! We've got a messy mix of snow and slush on the ground here, and it took me forever to get back from the dentist, and then I had to give a final.
Whew, I'm back now and settled for the night - no more driving in this crap for me!
Irish - you said, "I wasn’t sure if that’s what Hal was getting at, Ter – an author taking it to that uncomfortable level. I’ve had that happen a couple of times where you start squirming in your chair wondering where the author is going to take you and hoping it’s not where you eventually end up. But the brilliance is when they take you there and it ends up being okay in the end."
Yes! That's exactly what I'm talking about, that you articulated so well! Ain't She Sweet is a great example. I had the same squirm-in-my chair reaction to parts of that book, and I'm still a little surprised she pulled it off in the end, that I fell so in love with Sugar Beth.
Sometimes, an author takes something too far in a melodramatic sense and I just roll my eyes and wish they hadn't gone there. But when it makes me all squrimy, thinking, "Ohhh, don't go there, there's on coming back from that!" and then they do.....brilliance!
Hellie - Lucifer grieving at a funeral? I love it. I think it's hard to tell with our own writing. I usually have to send it to someone and say, "Uh, have I crossed a line here? This is either really good or really, really bad." lol.
And I definitely think it's hard when it's something close to you. Much harder to push the envelope when you can feel the stakes so intimately.
Janga - hilarious typo!
I agree it's much easier to tone down an over-the-top scene, then to punch up bland writing. Another great place CPs can come in handy, helping you figure out if toning down is necessary. Guess we shouldn't worry about going to far in first drafts, huh??
2nd - I'm so jealous of your weather. I think you do over-the-top beautifully, without it being overdone.
And I think you're totally right that sometimes over-the-top just makes your flaws more obvious, like those poor movies trying to be A-listers.
Melissa, I'd forgotten about that website, but it's a fun one! I love anything that let's me vote *g*
speaking of Flogging the Quill, the guy who runs it is guest blogging on Writer Unboxed today about his overall impressions of first pages:
http://writerunboxed.com/2010/12/16/qa-first-page-problems-and-enduring-the-wait/
Hal - when a movie reaches B movie perfection, it knows it's over the top and celebrates it with pure abandon. And I think the same with books... But the ones that attempt to pretend they are not over the top, they are literature are just pure examples of boobiness. And not the good kind!
Hal - that post at Writer Unboxed is what led me to the Flogging the Quill site. I thought I'd discovered a new thing! LOL I've also done a quick post referring both on my blog. I've devoured lots of info at the FtQ site and definitely want to get Ray Rhamey's craft book!
Sorry y'all, I really did take a nap. LOL! Good to hear you made it home safe and sound, Hal.
Chance - shut up. LOL!
Sorry I'm so late.
Long day. Sigh.
This was a great blog, Hal. And for me? It really hit home because I do not write fiction. I always try to be sensitive to the fact that real people are depicted in my stories. And that their right to privacy is just as important, more so really, than my need to share an event. There have however been a few exceptions where not only did I push the envelope … I ripped it apart.
Any scenes you’ve written, where you’ve gotten that feeling you might be stretching the boundaries a bit too far, but you know it’s going to work? It just has to be that way for the story?
Absolutely. One in particular comes to mind. The story begins with a few lines from the hymn Amazing Grace. It is a short descriptive first person narrative. An interaction between two women. One of whom is dying …
Last week while I was tying up some loose ends … organizing old material … finishing off some newer things … I came to realization that perhaps I have taken this as far as I can … with out pushing past boundaries that should not be pushed.
*shrugs*
Every done it and know you have to cut it, that it’s just plain too far, and not in a good way?
*quiet laugh*
Yes. Its hard though. Because the truth is? The stories that go to far? The ones I can’t tell? Those are the only ones I have worth telling.
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