Thursday, November 18, 2010
Second drafts
I always think of writing and revising as a two-step process. First I write it all down, then I tweak the wording and grammar. The changes I make during the revisions are usually at the sentence level: is this sentence saying what I want it to say? Are the words the best choices?
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I read recently a few things that made me wonder if I wasn't missing some- thing. The idea in these articles was that my drafts not the first and second drafts. These are the first and third drafts. There was a second draft I was skipping.
The basic idea is that we can't really know fully what we think about something until we've written it down. Ever notice that? We start writing, and the process of writing itself clarifies your thoughts so that you're not thinking the same thing at the end that you were at the beginning? Or you have a fuller, more complete and appreciative understanding of it at the end than at the beginning.
So the first draft is us putting all the information in our head on paper. The second draft is figuring out what we said, and what we meant. The second draft is all about "finding the argument," distilling what you wrote to its heart. For us, its getting to the point where we know our characters. We know how they see the world, what they need, what it is that drives them.
The second draft isn't about looking at the words and sentences then, but at the way you told your story. Now that you know the whole story, does it hold together structurally? Does it tell the story you want to tell? Does it tell the story in the best way it can be told.
Only then can the third draft occur, where we examine sentences and words and grammar.
I thought this was a cool idea, and I've found it to be true for me. This manuscript I'm revising now is the first time I've really done big, whole-sale revisions. I'm finding myself second guessing everything from the setting to the plot to whose, exactly, story this is. I assumed the problem was because I failed to plot properly. Next time, I'd have to do better, think of things earlier.
But this idea of the second and third drafts being separate steps means I didn't actually have errors in plotting. I just couldn't have put the story together without writing it down first, because I didn't fully know what story I was telling until I'd written it.
That's not to say I won't plot -- I'm sure I still will. But it does mean I could go quicker through the first draft, skipping all the time I spend fixing the grammar and little wording issues. Get it down on paper, and then determining the final changes.
What do you think? Do you figure out the whole story before you start, or discover it as you go along, or something in between? Do you already incorporate the second-draft changes into your revisions, or do you complete three separate drafts?
..............................................
I read recently a few things that made me wonder if I wasn't missing some- thing. The idea in these articles was that my drafts not the first and second drafts. These are the first and third drafts. There was a second draft I was skipping.
The basic idea is that we can't really know fully what we think about something until we've written it down. Ever notice that? We start writing, and the process of writing itself clarifies your thoughts so that you're not thinking the same thing at the end that you were at the beginning? Or you have a fuller, more complete and appreciative understanding of it at the end than at the beginning.
So the first draft is us putting all the information in our head on paper. The second draft is figuring out what we said, and what we meant. The second draft is all about "finding the argument," distilling what you wrote to its heart. For us, its getting to the point where we know our characters. We know how they see the world, what they need, what it is that drives them.
The second draft isn't about looking at the words and sentences then, but at the way you told your story. Now that you know the whole story, does it hold together structurally? Does it tell the story you want to tell? Does it tell the story in the best way it can be told.
Only then can the third draft occur, where we examine sentences and words and grammar.
I thought this was a cool idea, and I've found it to be true for me. This manuscript I'm revising now is the first time I've really done big, whole-sale revisions. I'm finding myself second guessing everything from the setting to the plot to whose, exactly, story this is. I assumed the problem was because I failed to plot properly. Next time, I'd have to do better, think of things earlier.
But this idea of the second and third drafts being separate steps means I didn't actually have errors in plotting. I just couldn't have put the story together without writing it down first, because I didn't fully know what story I was telling until I'd written it.
That's not to say I won't plot -- I'm sure I still will. But it does mean I could go quicker through the first draft, skipping all the time I spend fixing the grammar and little wording issues. Get it down on paper, and then determining the final changes.
What do you think? Do you figure out the whole story before you start, or discover it as you go along, or something in between? Do you already incorporate the second-draft changes into your revisions, or do you complete three separate drafts?
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37 comments:
Uh...head is spinning. Let me think about this. Since I'm a pantser in the first place, I think I get what you're saying. I had a mentor tell me once that she felt my story was a massive outline and needed filling in to make the book.
If that is what you mean, okay, I get it!
If not...nope, I'm lost.
I hope this goes really well today and I can check it out once I'm settled in and see if everyone else has figured it out! ;-)
Hal, this makes a LOT of sense for me. I think it's what I've been doing intuitively, but I like that it's been described now. :) It doesn't feel like I'm taking too much time to do something--this is just the process it requires to get things done.
The other day I was kinda worried about my NaNo WIP, because I've just been seeing "scenes" rather than the whole story--but then one of the scenes the other day gave me a better idea of what the story WILL be. . .which I'll mold in the next draft.
So yeah, I agree that you don't know the story until you write it. And then it's time to go back and smooth out the rough edges, and then that last time you polish it. :)
chance, you're right on. I think the point was that the first draft can't be filled in, because we haven't discovered yet everything about the story to fill in. I think pantsers do this automatically
Have a great time today! Are you doing costumes at this conference? Bring anything fun?
For a lot of people, it is intuitive (I'd wondered if I was the only one having an ah-ha moment :)). I kept thinking I was doing something wrong to be in a position where I have to make big changes after the first draft, and the better I got, the less revising I'd need to do. But accoring to this, making those big changes can only come after the first draft, and I need to cut myself a break, but also plan this stage as part of my writing process.
I think your NaNo stratgegy is a really fun one - I'm going to try it once I finish revising and go back to first draft writing. Instead of doing every scene perfectly the fiesta time, just throw everything on the page and then go back and sort out in a separate step
Hal - I love this. I think I can completely relate. I mean, I just wrote over 50K and did this same thing.
Though I wonder if I'm going to need another three drafts now that I've pretty much started over again. Hmmmmm.....
I'm like you though, I've skipped the middle draft as well. It's the hardest which is probably why I've avoided it. LOL! But I think it's where you get other people to read and give you their feedback, perspectives and where they think there are holes. Add that to your thoughts and places you think their are inconsistencies and holes and, voila!
That said, I think the more you think through this stuff at the first draft, the less work you have along down the line. But that could just be me and my process. I think some work better just writing free flow and fixing it completely later.
*there. ugh, up with sick kid at 5:45, need more caffeine.
Instead of doing every scene perfectly the fiesta time, just throw everything on the page and then go back and sort out in a separate step
(Hope I didn't mess things up with italics!) Fiesta time? I'm not sure if I missed something but if that's supposed to be "first" it's a perfect substitute. :) I like that. First drafts should be fiesta times! LOL If only I could remember that!
Darn italics. I won't do it again. Terri, help! Sorry. LOL
I discover the story as I go. Then I have problems like missing scenes, no chapter breaks and too much information too early in the story. I've never went through a whole book edit (I usually edit chapter to chapter- fan fiction way). I'll be interested to see what my process is like after I finish this time. Great blog!
I gotcha, Melissa, no problem.
I think I always knew about the second step, but I thought it was just me. I know I can't nitpick and get every word/sentence right until the very last draft. And I knew there would be a second draft where I added/deleted scenes, strengthened and went deeper.
But I'm only on my first experience with this and I stepped away months ago. It's time to dig my heels back in and it's proving to be not so easy. I'm determined that December will be all revising all the time. I want a solid draft of this book ready for beta readers by NYE.
Love these pics, btw. LOL! Great blog, Hal.
Marn - I think Hal's point is no amount of pre-planning is going to eliminate any of the later steps. You just can't know before the story is down on the page what you will know after. It's just one of those things.
Fiesta time? I’m not sure if I missed something but if that’s supposed to be “first” it’s a perfect substitute.
Lol! Fiesta time. Damn Apple - I was trying to type on an Ipad, and the autocorrect strikes again.
But it's a fun idea - the fiesta draft :)
Marn - I'm not willing to give up plotting - I like knowing where I'm going. And I think every manuscript is going to need a different amount of second-draft changes. I think I'm just more relieved it doesn't mean I'm a terrible writer that I have to make all these changes :)
Feedback, according to what I was reading, is essential at the second-draft, like you're saying. In the first draft, we put down what's in our head -- it's all writer-based. we know what we meant. Once we get that feedback, start breaking down the second draft, it's all about "is what the reader understood what I meant? How can I tighten or expand or condense or whatever to make what's in my head the same as what's in the reader's head? It's that shift from writer-based prose to reader-based prose.
Ugh, can anyone else tell I've been doing WAY too much homework lately? I need Thanksgiving break to come ASAP :)
I'm not giving up my plotting either. You can pry my storyboard from my cold dead hands. LOL! But I'm also not letting anyone read my MS before at least the second pass. Which is probably my stubborn streak getting in my own way, but that's how I am.
I like this switching from writer-prose to reader-prose. Which is probably why it's a good thing to never stop reading, no matter how much you're writing.
I’ve never went through a whole book edit (I usually edit chapter to chapter- fan fiction way). I’ll be interested to see what my process is like after I finish this time.
Sin, this is the first time I'm doing whole-book revisions, too. And it's not what I expected. Actually, it's way harder than I expected. Mostly, I'm trying to make myself feel better by convincing myself it's normal to have to make this many changes after the first draft :)
Ter - that was another thing I'm realizing. I work so hard to get the first draft of everything *just right* so I can send it to critique partners without making a complete fool of myself, and then on the second-draft, re-write all those scenes I spent hours tweaking. I'm thinking I need to just write the first draft as a whole, make my own pass over it from a global, "does this work" perspective, and THEN send it out.
Marn and I swap every couple chapters when writing, and I don't mind sending her rough stuff, because I can just say "the prose is shitty, but the ideas are there" and go right on. When I have to turn in every 30 pages at school, though, I want it to be perfect and impressive, and I'm getting in my own way doing that, I think.
And I feel the same way about my huge white-board panels that are all over the room where I write. This poor kid's nursery is going be decorated with charts on my novels and nothing else. Oh well - maybe it'll make him smarter :)
Which reading that back makes me realize I don't play well with others. LOL! But I knew that already.
He's going to be a genius already, no worries. LOL!
I bet if I had to do it for school, I would be more uptight about what I sent. But I can't have a CP. That's just me. And NOT that I'm comparing myself to LaNora, but I've heard her say the same thing. And others too. I'm happy for anyone who finds an awesome CP relationship. More power to you. But I can't do that.
I’m happy for anyone who finds an awesome CP relationship. More power to you. But I can’t do that.
I think everybody uses CPs differently. It's kind of like the writing process -- we have to stumble upon what works best for us. I know for me, I want someone reading along as I go to make sure I'm not on crack *g*. Other people want to save that for the end. I don't think one is necessary or better or anything.
I'd heard LaNora say once that she writes the first draft as fast as possible, then goes back and starts over. I'm thinking I should try that. As I've been working on these "revisions", I've found that I'm pretty much re-writing each scene as I go along. It's driving me nuts, as I keep thinking about all the time I "wasted" tweaking each of those scenes I'm now scrapping. So next time, I'm just going to try LaNora's plan -- write as fast as possible, then scrap the whole thing and start over *g*
I don't think she starts over, she just goes back to the beginning and sees what the story needs. She said some need to be redone and others just need some cleaning up here and there. Which makes me feel better that even for her, every book is different.
But she also said if she sent something to her dearest writing friend and she came back with something like "It's great but if you just tweaked this here" that Nora would rip her throat out. LOL! No kidding, that's what she said. I don't know if it's my control freak nature, my ego, or my aversion to authority, but I would have the same reaction.
That's hilarious. I'm the opposite, I think. I can't figure out if something works until several people have assured me that it works. Of course, that creates it's own new problems, in that I start getting more concerned with what my CP's think is best, rather than what *I* think is best. All about balance, baby. Balance!
Well, for the record, I'm not convince anything I'm going is right. LOL! I just don't have the cajones to hear that it's not.
I should have sent that first sentence to a CP.
*sigh*
lol. It's Friday, it's allowed :)
I gotta run to class. The last lecture of the semester I've giving. Woo hoo! (in other words, the last day I have to stand up there yammering on while they roll their eyes and stare out the window.)
Maybe it's a result of all those years of teaching composition, but my writing process has four distinct steps--prewriting, which for me is mostly writing character biographies; drafting, which for me consists of a discovery draft and a number of fill-in-the-holes drafts; revising, which is where I first think about audience and what I need to do to move the text fron writer-centered to reader-centered; editing, which is where I focus on sentence craft, grammar, usage, and mechanics. Since I write non-linearly, my process is heavily recursive. Only when I've completed all these steps am I read for the final step--publish. And by "publish" I mean making it public in any way, whether it's sending a scene to a friend to read or posting a snippet on my blog. I spend most of my time revising and editing and repeating these steps. I felt as if this Debbie Ohi cartoon were about me. LOL
http://writerunboxed.com/2010/10/02/comic-compulsive-editing-support-group/
Dude, as I was reading this, it was like hearing Handel's Messiah. This made such perfect sense. I was all, "I want to be in Hal's writing class because she gives the best lectures!!!"
Yes, I am trying to skip the 2nd draft, or worse, I get halfway through the first draft and try to start over by writing the "2nd" draft and I never finish the bloody thing. I really need to make myself just finish the draft as it is, then go back and write the 2nd draft.
*LOL* Love the comic!!
I'm pretty sure Hal isn't lecturing on writing. LOL! For that she's lectured "at".
Something about this conversation is getting my brain moving in the right direction. I even had the fleeting thought, "This revision might not be so bad considering the book is really already written." No idea where that delusion came from, but I think I should run with it.
Mostly, I’m trying to make myself feel better by convincing myself it’s normal to have to make this many changes after the first draft
I'm gonna have to rearrange a whole host of scenes. It's going to be a long and painful process.
But think about it, the rough stuff is there. The story and the scenes are there. They are created and for me, that's more than half the battle. Figuring out WHAT to write is harder than anything for me. So the idea that it exists and I'm just shaping it somehow makes me feel better.
(Another delusion, but whatever.)
Hal says: I don’t mind sending her rough stuff, because I can just say “the prose is shitty, but the ideas are there” and go right on.
I know for me, I want someone reading along as I go to make sure I’m not on crack.
This is exactly how I feel about the first draft. I need to know that my idea makes sense. Sometimes, especially when I'm pushing my limits, I need to make sure that I'm not way off track.
And I can totally send Hal stuff with cliches and crappy dialogue and she'll look around it to see if the underlying idea is good. I can weed out cliches and bad dialogue later, but a good idea is hard to put in after the fact.
Thank goodness for CPs who work the same way you do. (XOXO Hal).
Chance, I stopped by to see your blog of the day! Did you change days on me? :(
As to the question - I'm working on my second attempt at the first draft. I started a year ago with an idea and not much else, and the 20k I wrote was pretty crappy. I felt lost, not sure where I was going. I stopped and spent several months plotting, and getting to know my characters. Now, I'm 14k into writing this first draft again, and I'm loving it! I'm just trying to get things on the page - not paying too much attention to details, or pretty prose. Trying to get the relationships as real as possible between my characters.
Yo Ho, I'm in Seattle at a Steampunk Con, I blogged yesterday!
Not doing much yet, recovering from the very early morning. But figuring I'll get out of the room soon and go wander through the whole con site. Might take me a few hours. This thing is huge!
Now, I've also thought a bit about what yer getting at Hal. I think I 'write' my first draft in my head. I'm not joking about telling myself the story at night or whenever I'm driving or not reading, etc. I pick up from where I left off, sometimes I change things, sometimes I don't...but I really want to say I do my first draft in my head.
When I first start doing it on the computer, a lot changes in the story...
I don't know, maybe I do a pre-draft?
Yo Ho, I've been there with you. I write around that, 20K, then when I know more about the story and setting and character, I plot the whole thing out. I don't actually start over but it almost always requires changing up and adding to what I have. Heck, I've even added characters that weren't there in the beginning.
Chance - Eloisa James says she thinks about a story idea for up to a year before she writes a word. So by the time she writes it, she knows a lot about the people and the story.
Wow, like THE Eloisa James? ;-)
Who'd a thunk I shared some mad storyteller genetics with EJ?
Yep, the one and only. LOL!
Sorry I didn't make it back after class!
Janga, LOVE the cartoon! So true *g*. This class I've been taking is on teaching both composition and creative writing, and so we've been studying all this about the revision process and how to teach it. I'm really enjoying it -- even if I never teach English, it's been great information and helped me think about my own writing process.
Marn - :)
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