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Tuesday, August 31, 2010
Let's Hear It For The Villain!
I'm a contrarian. This is so deeply embedded in my DNA, for the longest time I didn't even suspect its existence. I spent the first *mumble, mumble* years of my life going along with everybody. I'd say, "Of course", or "That sounds great!", or "Whatever you want". Not only did I mean it, I'd expend a lot of time and energy to make it happen, even if it made me unhappy (which it often did).
But that contrarian gene was like a sleeper cell, waiting for the precise moment before it was called into action. Now if I utter, "Of course", or "That sounds great!", or "Whatever you want", it's more likely said in an ironic tone of voice, or with a sardonic lift of my eyebrows.
There were moments in my youth when I should have realized I was a budding contrarian. I remember watching Mighty Mouse cartoons, hoping that flying rodent with the cape and oversized pecs wouldn't make it to the rescue in time. I wanted the villain and the girl to get together. Obviously I knew the villain wasn't truly evil. But I figured out pretty quickly he was way more interesting to me than the hero was.
Now that I'm an adult, my taste in villains has expanded. As I've mentioned recently, I'm watching the BBC TV series, "Robin Hood". And yes, I confess the reason I am watching it is because of Richard Armitage, who plays a villain. But he's not THE villain, who we all know is the Sheriff of Nottingham. The Sheriff is smarmy and sleazy and cowardly and evil to his core. Yecch. Boo, hiss. Not the kind of villain I'm advocating here.
The handsome Richard Armitage plays Guy de Gisbourne, the Sheriff's henchman. He really rocks that whole villainous sartorial thing—black leather pants, long black leather coat with shiny metal doodads, black boots with clinking spurs that make my heart dance with anticipation for his arrival—so yeah, I'd be lusting after him just for that aspect.
But the thing that makes him, and other villains of his ilk, so genuinely fascinating? The possibility he MIGHT do something heroic.
One of Guy's most humanizing traits is when he gets disgusted by his boss, the Sheriff. Haven't all of us rolled our eyes at the crazy stuff our bosses ask us to do? Still, he grits his teeth and follows orders anyway, hoping it will help him get ahead in the world, so he can have what he really wants: The Girl.
Even though Maid Marian makes me want to take archery lessons so I can learn how to shoot flaming arrows at her skull with 100% accuracy. . .I do love how Guy keeps trying to win her over. He is dazzled by her (God knows why – oh yeah, because he hasn't seen me yet), and he can't seem to figure out why she isn't dazzled by him (me either – I mean, I love Robin and all, but he's cute and good rather than sexy and bad).
The bottom line is Guy could just take Marian by force, and do all kinds of dastardly deeds to achieve his goals. . .but he doesn't. And that's what intrigues me. It signals there is a seed of something heroic inside him. He struggles to keep in touch with it, and when he ultimately fails, then he wrestles with his failure. If he truly were a villain, he'd be whistling a Disney tune as he wiped the blood off his sword, mentally crossing off another item on his never-ending "Evil To Do" list.
With the hero, it's a pretty safe bet that he will be heroic, because, well, it's in his job description. Since he gets paid to be heroic, there's not a lot of suspense involved, because there are expectations of heroism. Don't get me wrong. I love heroes, and I want them to be that way. And it's no doubt a heavy burden to carry, being heroic 24/7, yet they do it without hesitation, making them even more admirable.
But if the villain does something heroic? Get out the smelling salts because women everywhere are going to swoon.
And if he does something heroic because of the heroine? Plug your ears because the heartfelt "ahhhhs" are going to deafen you.
It takes a lot to sway a villain from his nefarious goals, so it's naturally very sexy when the heroine inspires him to change his mind, and his course of action. Talk about a character arc!
So now I'm not feeling so bad about my contrary attachment to these luscious villains. They are merely heroes in disguise, battling their defiant DNA, trying to keep their laudable qualities from being extinguished. All I ask is that they don't let their latent goodness become a dominant feature. If they do, they're going to lose me as a fan.
I am a dyed-in-the-wool contrarian after all.
So anyone else love to love a villain? Tell us about the villains you're writing, and what makes them so delicious. Or confess which fictional villain makes your heart flutter. And if you're not a fan of villains, that's okay too. Just tell us why you aren't.
But that contrarian gene was like a sleeper cell, waiting for the precise moment before it was called into action. Now if I utter, "Of course", or "That sounds great!", or "Whatever you want", it's more likely said in an ironic tone of voice, or with a sardonic lift of my eyebrows.
There were moments in my youth when I should have realized I was a budding contrarian. I remember watching Mighty Mouse cartoons, hoping that flying rodent with the cape and oversized pecs wouldn't make it to the rescue in time. I wanted the villain and the girl to get together. Obviously I knew the villain wasn't truly evil. But I figured out pretty quickly he was way more interesting to me than the hero was.
Now that I'm an adult, my taste in villains has expanded. As I've mentioned recently, I'm watching the BBC TV series, "Robin Hood". And yes, I confess the reason I am watching it is because of Richard Armitage, who plays a villain. But he's not THE villain, who we all know is the Sheriff of Nottingham. The Sheriff is smarmy and sleazy and cowardly and evil to his core. Yecch. Boo, hiss. Not the kind of villain I'm advocating here.
The handsome Richard Armitage plays Guy de Gisbourne, the Sheriff's henchman. He really rocks that whole villainous sartorial thing—black leather pants, long black leather coat with shiny metal doodads, black boots with clinking spurs that make my heart dance with anticipation for his arrival—so yeah, I'd be lusting after him just for that aspect.
But the thing that makes him, and other villains of his ilk, so genuinely fascinating? The possibility he MIGHT do something heroic.
One of Guy's most humanizing traits is when he gets disgusted by his boss, the Sheriff. Haven't all of us rolled our eyes at the crazy stuff our bosses ask us to do? Still, he grits his teeth and follows orders anyway, hoping it will help him get ahead in the world, so he can have what he really wants: The Girl.
Even though Maid Marian makes me want to take archery lessons so I can learn how to shoot flaming arrows at her skull with 100% accuracy. . .I do love how Guy keeps trying to win her over. He is dazzled by her (God knows why – oh yeah, because he hasn't seen me yet), and he can't seem to figure out why she isn't dazzled by him (me either – I mean, I love Robin and all, but he's cute and good rather than sexy and bad).
The bottom line is Guy could just take Marian by force, and do all kinds of dastardly deeds to achieve his goals. . .but he doesn't. And that's what intrigues me. It signals there is a seed of something heroic inside him. He struggles to keep in touch with it, and when he ultimately fails, then he wrestles with his failure. If he truly were a villain, he'd be whistling a Disney tune as he wiped the blood off his sword, mentally crossing off another item on his never-ending "Evil To Do" list.
With the hero, it's a pretty safe bet that he will be heroic, because, well, it's in his job description. Since he gets paid to be heroic, there's not a lot of suspense involved, because there are expectations of heroism. Don't get me wrong. I love heroes, and I want them to be that way. And it's no doubt a heavy burden to carry, being heroic 24/7, yet they do it without hesitation, making them even more admirable.
But if the villain does something heroic? Get out the smelling salts because women everywhere are going to swoon.
And if he does something heroic because of the heroine? Plug your ears because the heartfelt "ahhhhs" are going to deafen you.
It takes a lot to sway a villain from his nefarious goals, so it's naturally very sexy when the heroine inspires him to change his mind, and his course of action. Talk about a character arc!
So now I'm not feeling so bad about my contrary attachment to these luscious villains. They are merely heroes in disguise, battling their defiant DNA, trying to keep their laudable qualities from being extinguished. All I ask is that they don't let their latent goodness become a dominant feature. If they do, they're going to lose me as a fan.
I am a dyed-in-the-wool contrarian after all.
So anyone else love to love a villain? Tell us about the villains you're writing, and what makes them so delicious. Or confess which fictional villain makes your heart flutter. And if you're not a fan of villains, that's okay too. Just tell us why you aren't.
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94 comments:
You rooted against Mighty Mouse??? MY CHILDHOOD HERO!!??
You evil wench!
That said, I'm the pirate who adores Barbossa. Now, he never did the good deed for Elizabeth, but he still couldn't help but be a gentleman. Which is what I tend to dig.
I haven't actually written a delicious villain... I've written characters who redeemed themselves from villainous tendencies though...
Against Mighty Mouse...sigh...
Contrarians are the most interesting adorably attractive people!
I don't mean the type who go against the flow on principle, just to be controvercial, they are not the real McCoy.
True contrarians have the courage to follow their gut instinct, even when it signals to move against the herd.
When you have knowledge of a topic, then gut instict is ussually a better guide than detailed analysis (see for example Gerd Gigenzer 'The intelligence of the unconscious').
There may be safety in following the masses, as you can all end up in the muck together. But following your 'inner guide', particularly when it is contrarian, can lead to massive rewards.
Think only of Warren Buffet who makes big bucks in financial markets with contrarian plays.
Or JAK in romance fiction who fought to get her work into print,even to the extent of choosing new pseudonyms when her sub-genre was unpopular with publishers. She captured the world with her books eventually!
I must confess that personally I rather like the 'bad girl' with the tasty soft centre. The one with the spine to stand up to powerful men around her, eventually twisting them around her little finger.
I also had a sneeking sympathy for the Mekon in 'Dan Dare' when I was very young. :lol:
Fabulous blog Donna. :D
Maureen, I didn't exactly ROOT against Mighty Mouse. I just WONDERED what it would be like if he was delayed in traffic, or something. :)
I wasn't sure if anyone else would know who Mighty Mouse was -- the perils of getting older -- not being sure which pop culture references will survive. LOL
I could see you going for Barbossa. :) Although I haven't thought of him being gentlemanly. Hmm. I must ponder that.
Q, I think you might have made my day! LOL
And I agree with you about not liking "so-called" contrarians who are really "obstructionists". It's taken me a long time to embrace my contrarian nature, and now the next task is to convince everyone else it's a good thing that I've done so. LOL
Great examples, by the way, of contrarians. It does take courage to go against the masses. Most would rather drink the koolaid and not question things.
I need to hear more about Mekon and Dan Dare, because I have no idea who they are (it sounds like I might need to make another addition to my villain collection tho -- LOL)
And of course you like those bad girls -- that's why you're here with us, right? :)
Donna - If he truly were a villain, he’d be whistling a Disney tune as he wiped the blood off his sword, mentally crossing off another item on his never-ending “Evil To Do” list.
LOL!! This made me giggle.
I could see liking this kind of villain. Like Snape in the HP books. The anti-hero. I like that.
My villains. Not so much. My most recent antagonist is a power-hungry control freak. I was initially going to make him mental ill but I think not now. That's the easy way out. Instead, I think he just likes to wield power over those he considers beneath him.
Actually, now that I think about it, I haven't really delved into his motives. He scares me. I think there's something in his background that makes me have serious anger management issues and makes him want to be in control. I don't know what it is yet though.
Hmmm.... Good things to think about. Especially because I've been debating adding sections from his POV.
Eric Northman ( played by Alexander Skarsgård ) in the TV show True Blood .
Marn, when I first started writing, I didn't have any villains, because I wrote straight Regencies, and there wasn't really any need for villainous behavior. LOL
When I wrote my first Regency historical, I got to do a villain, and I was apprehensive, because I didn't want to delve into, and stay in, a scary place like you mention. He does some terrible things, but I don't go into details -- but the best part is how he sincerely believes he's doing these things for a moral reason. LOL
Definitely consider doing scenes from his POV -- I have a few, and one agent (for a revise/resubmit) suggested I add a couple more. LOL
Julie, I haven't gotten to see too much of True Blood yet, so I've only seen a little bit of Eric -- he does have a heartless quality, from what I've seen so far! So does he have some heroic qualities mixed in with his villainous ones?
I enjoy these heroes --er, that is villains, too. They have so much built in conflict in them that I can see why they are strong characters and steal the show. And also why authors sometimes turn this borderline villan/hero into a hero in a sequel.
I'm tempted too. If I ever get to my third story, I know it's a villain/hero character - - sort of. He's the twin of the true villain so he sort of carries the extra baggage of the villain in appearance. It could be interesting - when I get to it. LOL My villains normally though are definitely not redeemable and basically the serial killer type. LOL
The man moves like a cat. I swear he purrs too when Sokie is in the room!
Eric always seems to be there when Sookie needs him. Of course he down plays his motivations. Acts like he is doing whatever because it is in his own interests , not hers. But you can tell by the looks he gives her when he thinks that she isn’t watching. He cares. He doesn’t want to. But he does.
I would say that he loves her. Which makes him mad ... because he seems to view love as a weakness.
Having An Eric around would be like having a panther for a pet. He’s rather exotic and dangerously cuddly looking. You’d never quite know when he’s going to pounce.
I am intrigued, as I like men who are dangerous. Mentally . And physically. I adore men who have brains and street smarts. Of course they have to be strong enough to rip you to shreds. But gentle enough to cuddle with a newborn babe.
That IMO is the Perfect Man. Or should I say Purr-fect?
Melissa, I'm glad you like these hero/villains too. :) You actually reminded me of a book series where the hero was so completely self-serving in the first few books but when it was his turn to be the hero -- wow. He really got his sh*t together! LOL
I like the twin villain idea, especially since he's got that baggage of "it's not me, it's him" going on. Can't wait to see it!
Julie, you've described a purr-fect man as far as I'm concerned! :) So where's that store located? LOL I've got my list right here.
I've read several of the books with Eric in them, and I think you've described his feelings perfectly -- I'd like to see it in action though. *runs off to move True Blood to the top of the Netflix queue*
This week has sucked--and it's only Wednesday--and this blog has made it infinitely brighter. *sighs swoonily*
I've always liked the bad boys rather than the golden boys. Always a Bo Duke fan rather than Luke Duke because Bo was passionate and Luke was a bit too good. And then there is my love for Severus Snape, who is the bad boy we all love. (Well, that is if you like Harry Potter you love him.) I love the bad boys, who as you say aren't truly all bad. They may have their own agendas, but sometimes they will do what's right even if it's against what they'd normally do.
I thought Armitage was a villain/hero in North & South. I mean, he's BILLED as the hero; he ends up being the love interest of the girl--but he's got villain qualities. He beats up his workers; he's the owner of a MILL (and mills at that period were notorious for not being good to the workers, not remotely healthy); he's always going on and on about how he's doing one thing or another NOT because of the workers but because of the bottom line. Every GOOD thing he does for the worker, he says he's doing because there's profit in it in the long run. We may sit and go, "Oh, he's just saying that so we don't think he's a big marshmallow! That's so sweet!" but technically speaking, that's not a heroic thing to say.
Another villain who makes my heart flutter: Lucius Malfoy (not as much as he makes my friend's heart flutter, but I see the appeal) and the baddie in The Patriot (same guy Jason Isaacs) who is really quite awful. I can't really imagine redeeming him, but he's so awful, he makes me laugh. He also looks great in uniform.
or "scene." :-)
Villains rock! Some of the best I've seen were on the show LOST. They'd show up on the seen as these baddies and then, slowly, they'd reveal their softer sides and flaws. I love writing them that way too--bad people you can't help but love. Sort of.
Hellie, I'm glad this blog managed to dispel some of the suckiness of your week.
I think you're right about my boyfriend in North & South. He's definitely got villain qualities because he's trying to make that business successful, and he doesn't really think of the workers as humans. Maybe since he has that twit of a sister to support -- that would increase my villainous tendencies I think. LOL I haven't watched it for a while -- did the business used to be his dad's, and he had to take it over? So he feels burdened by his mother and sister?
I watched a BBC miniseries with Jason Isaacs recently -- I'll have to find the name -- and he was an ambassador who was caught up in some bad things that weren't REALLY his fault, but it would be tricky to call him a hero. LOL He was yummy in it though. *runs off to Netflix again*
Hi Donna. I love a good villain and I think you've picked a good one as an example. I love that show. My hubby and I watched it until it was canceled. Guy is a perfect villain. He's dark, but as you point out, the viewer can see that there's a potential good guy in there. I always write strong villains. My villains are as interesting and have as strong a motivation as my hero and heroine. I read somewhere that even if the reader hates the villain, they need to be able to identify with him, to see what brought him to this point. Great post.
I also loved Jason Isaacs as Captain Hook--he was a hottie there too. *LOL*
That sister was villain enough for anyone. Ugh. And the mother comes across as rather villainous too, but you soon see she's like her son. She seems rough around the edges, but there is plenty of good reasons why she's that way; and she's a lot better than you think by first impression. In comparison, the sister is very two-dimensional, not a well-developed character. (Though I don't think every secondary character can be developed to full three-dimensional quality and still have a moderate length book.)
Thornton had to take over the business because his father "speculated" (Wall Street sort of gambling) and lost the fortune--then he killed himself. The mother held the family together, scraped and pinched and made sure her son was educated; and when he was old enough, he started the business to take care of his family (esp his mother). Part of the story is how he refuses to speculate (which is the "modern" way to make money, not the nasty tradesman way that Thornton is doing) because of what happened with his father--and he feels responsible too for his workers who also have families and he won't ruin the business on a "possibility" and ruin the livelihoods of the men who need to feed their families. He knows what it means to starve.
Liz, you're exactly right about the villains in LOST. Which is one of the reasons I loved that show, even if I didn't understand the story 95% of the time.
I mean, Sawyer was hot, but when he'd scowl and then go off and do the right thing? *fans face* Yeah, that's what I'm talking about!
Anita, I've been watching it on Netflix (they oughta pay me a commission -- I'm plugging them every 5 seconds here!) I've actually got two episodes left of the last season, but I'm saving them. LOL I don't want to have no more Guy to look forward to!
I've been looking forward to your book, but now that I know you've got my kind of villain in there -- ooh! Even better!
Hellie, I agree that secondary characters can't be too developed sometimes or they can take over the narrative.
And thanks for the reminder of RA's motivation in North and South. So he's definitely got good reasons for being a hard-ass. :)
Jason Isaacs as Captain Hook? I've got to find that!
My child adores Guy of Gisbourne. We watched the whole series and she'd sit very still for the opening credits so she could sigh when his named appeared. Though she also adores Robin too. Jonas Armstrong has a great smile.
I've never thought about this before, but I don't think I lean toward the villains. In this too, I am of the straight and narrow. Give me a fine, upstanding hero and I'm putty in his hands.
The villain in my MS is sort of like Marn describes hers. Not redeemable or even nice in any way. Though he has everyone in town fooled into thinking he's a good guy. Which makes him all the more dangerous. There is a reason for his jealousy and eventual snapping, but nothing that would create sympathy in the reader.
At least I don't think. Hmmmm......
Awesome blog, Donna!
It signals there is a seed of something heroic inside him. He struggles to keep in touch with it, and when he ultimately fails, then he wrestles with his failure.
I love, love, love this. Although for me, it describes my heroes more than villains. The hero in my current WIP is a lot like this. He doesn't some really f*ed up things, none of which he makes excuses for, but which he struggles with, because he knows exactly what kind of man he's becoming.
I also love that villains like this don't justify their actions or make excuses for themselves. They just are who they are, and they're good with that. That arrogance always adds to the bad-boy-sex appeal. I mean really, what's the point of a bad boy if he felt guilty all the time? LOL!
Hal, I think your hero sounds very intriguing! He's trying to keep that humanity alive inside him, but he's having a helluva struggle. Can't wait to get my hands on him, er, I mean the book. :)
LOL about bad boys and not feeling guilty! You're so right about the arrogance being part of their appeal. They REVEL in their badness. *swoon*
Terri, I love Robin too -- he's got that jaunty walk, and during the first season he had that kind of "sparkle" about him that was pure mischief.
I'm glad to know I've got to compete with your daughter for Guy's affections. LOL Did you see when he was on The Vicar of Dibley? I don't watch the series, but the other day on, well, Netflix -- LOL -- I got to see this episode that he was on and he fell in love with the woman vicar (the main character). OMG -- I fell in love with him again! So he can do nice guys very well too.
I think your villain sounds very scary -- people who SEEM nice and try to appear that way -- yikes. I'll be happy to read him and then rate him on my Villainometer. :)
Dawn French is the Vicar of Dibley. I *LOVED* that show. *sighs* Great episode.
I loved him on the Vicar of Dibley. That final wedding episode was hysterical, but he was SOOOOOOOOOO sweet on there. Too sweet even for me. LOL!
Yes, kiddo will wrestle you for him any day. And I should warn you, at 11 she's already my height and still going, destination 6'. So you might want to schedule that match soon while you can (maybe) still take her. LOL!
Terri, too sweet for you? NOW who's the contrarian? LOL
Thanks for the warning about my competition. :) I better start getting in shape for the wrassling match. LOL She's got youth on her side, but I'm wily!
Hellie, it was a great episode -- I swear I was squealing and grinning like he'd asked ME to marry him. LOL
I've got to go watch that one again too. I'm not going to get much done with my writing. . .I know! I'll make him one of my characters! (Brilliant, DRD. Truly brilliant.)
Terri, too sweet for you? NOW who’s the contrarian?
Totally what I was thinking.
I did love how he explained the joke to the ditzy blonde at the end and she finally got it and started laughing. Great way to end the series.
Come on, the man was a giant stick of super-sweet gum! Even I need a little edge. Sort of dull and shiney and maybe with some dimples, but an edge none the less.
Yep, Terri's caught the Contrarian Virus, even if she won't acknowledge the symptoms. LOL
I liked the joke at the end too -- that was hilarious.
All of these great descriptions sound more like anti-heroes to me than villains. As you state, the Sheriff in the RH series is despicable and not likable at all. Though he's funnier in the first couple seasons, with that stupid tooth and all.
Anti-heroes I can totally get behind. The description of a guy who knows who he is and makes no apologies, but still has enough good qualities to make us love him against our better judgement. That is the perfect anti-hero. For me any way.
Mmm, well I guess I think of anti-heroes as having a bigger proportion of heroism than villains do. So maybe it's a matter of how the ingredients are mixed in -- the percentage of heroism v. villainy. LOL
As much as I love Guy, he was only heroic on occasion, so I doubt he could be called an anti-hero. But I know what you're saying. Maybe it's a sliding scale, a continuum. . .a little more of this quality makes him heroic, a little more of that one makes him villainous.
Too bad they don't have a Build-a-Bear place for villains. LOL
The anti-hero. I love how this is the IT term nowadays. In the old days, the heroes were the guys with the white hats; the villains were clear (with selfish motives). But the anti-hero is Mr. Gray Hat. *LOL* He's neither black or white; he keeps you guessing. Everything's a mystery; you're never quite certain where you stand and that's part of the charm.
Who was the first anti-hero anyway? I think in the good old days, an anti-hero was someone who let his fatal flaw best him and he ends up dying to pay the price of his fatal flaw. Now the anti-heroes usually live to fight another day. Is Batman like an anti-hero?
Too bad they don’t have a Build-a-Bear place for villains.
Oh, God, now I totally want one of these shops. Instead of making collages for my stories before writing them, I could Build-a-Villain/Hero and have little stuffed versions of them on my desk to inspire me.
Hellie, good question about who was the first anti-hero. I think Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke has been mentioned, but maybe it went back farther. I just remembered how my mom LOVED Robert Mitchum, who was definitely a bad boy in his day - LOL - guess I came by my "villain love" naturally!
I think of Batman as a "tortured hero". But I don't watch the movies that often, so I could be off base on that.
I like the Build-a-Villain/Hero thing too -- only I'd want them life-size, and hell, life-like. LOL
Part of the problem using Guy as the main example is that the writers couldn't make up their minds what he was. LOL! I mean, he was ruthless and killed innocent people, but then he'd get a conscience and go against the Sheriff's orders. That's a tough one to lock down.
Though I haven't seen the movies, from what I've heard, I'd say Iron Man is more of an anti-hero than Batman. Anyone whose seen them, am I close?
http://www.angelfire.com/goth2/needavillain/
Hellie, that's hilarious!
Terri, you're right -- I was thinking that too -- they kept changing Guy to fit their storyline. So my crush may be getting in the way of my ability to analyze. LOL
I've seen the first Ironman, but I'm not sure how to characterize him. I'll defer to the experts. :)
If we're going to have a build-a-villain/hero shop, can we just cut to the chase and make it build-a-hottie?
So what you're saying is that Robin Hood the Series is a prime example of "plot" over "character" (even though the plot wasn't all that either)--and that we're all basically too shallow to pay that much attention because the show was littered with hot people.
Do you think the fact they didn't develop the characters and focused more on "plot" is because the characters are so well known they didn't think they needed to? Is this why it's hard to pick up a half-finished manuscript and start writing because you feel you know too much about the characters, you don't think you can go back and redevelop them so the story can be made into what it needs to be? (Assuming you can do that sort of trickery and you don't think that the story is what it is and you can't change your characters to fix your story...)
I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense. I think I might need lunch.
Yes, I know. That explains so much.
I'd say Iron Man was the anti-hero to those who knew who well. To the masses, he was just a hero.
And yes, Barbossa was a gentleman!
I'm thinking Alan Rickman in the Robin Hood with Costner was a bit of a villain you want to love. I mean, he was direct, had a nagging mother, didn't apologize...and was just so much damned fun to watch!
Mighty Mouse was my invisible companion for many, many, many years...
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, and call off Christmas!"
I think there's a long history of heroes with some villainous qualities. Rochester in Jane Eyre, Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind, the Duke of Avon in Heyer's These Old Shades, Derek Craven in Lisa Kleypas's Dreaming of You, and almost all of Anne Stuart's heroes come immediately to mind. My all-time favorite of this type is Roland Fairleigh Mathieson, a character in Patricia Veryan's Georgian-set Golden Chronicles who changes over the course of six books from villain to hero. His book is aptly titled The Dedicated Villain.
But at heart I am essentially a lover of Beta heroes, and Betas are never villainous.
Janga! That's the one I was thinking of earlier, but I couldn't remember anything but Patricia Veryan's name! *kiss kiss kiss* Thank you for the reminder -- I have to read that one again. HAVE to. He was AWESOME, with a side of awesome. :)
It's funny -- the heroes I write are Beta, but I do like to "read on the wild side". LOL
The first villain I wrote was with Alan Rickman in mind. His voice makes me all swoonish. LOL (This was before he was in the Harry Potter movies, so I had him first. LOL) He sounds so civilized, even when he's being dastardly.
No, I've loved Alan since Robin Hood. However, if you claim to have loved him in Die Hard when it originally came out, you have me beat. *LOL*
Hellie, I've loved him since Quigley Down Under. LOL
I too have loved Rickman since RH. Totally stole that picture. But I also loved him in Sense & Sensibility. When was that? LOL!
I was going to ask if Kleypas' St. Vincent fell into this category somewhere. But I've only read him as a secondary character. (I know, bad me.)
Hellie - You might want to get some sugar. I didn't understand that question at all. But to be fair, I too am about to eat.
Terri, I forgot about him in S&S -- good call! That was um, a while ago, I think. But don't quote me. LOL
I have to run off and do a couple of errands, but I'll be back.
Oh, Nathan Fillion just tweeted that he's tweeting during episode 5, and challenging people to try to see it when it airs. LOL
I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense. I think I might need lunch.
Oh?
No!
It actually kind of made sense. Which is Scary.
Note To Self: Must find way back to my reality. Hmm … I can’t afford psychotherapy … so I’ll have to get shock treatment on the cheap. That’s right. I’m gonna go shopping at the mall with my DD. One look at the price of the stuff she wants & ZZZZZZaaaapppppp!
Welcome back to my Reality!
Okay, I looked them up. Hood was '91 and S&S was '95. So we're all going on 20 years. Though that Quigley thing sounds earlier. LOL! What is that?!
Julie - We hit the mall on Monday. Though some things were ZZZZAppy, there were some good sales. God speed, my dear.
Terri, we went Sunday. I got eyedrops. she got? A Fall Line.
My head still hurts.
I have one word ...
Hollisterrrrrrrr
Eeek! 20 years! Back when I was, gulp, YOUNG. LOL
Quigley Down Under is a Tom Selleck movie, from 1990. It's a Western, and he's a sharpshooter, hired by Alan Rickman to come to Australia -- when he gets there he finds out AR wants him to shoot the aborigines. NOT cool. :(
And
A Note To Chance: I'm hopeless, aren't I? WanderWanderWanderrrrr ... Uhh, what were we discussing? Oh. Loveable villians.
Does that sales clerk at Hollisters count? He was Much tooooo helpful! Cute & helpful. The Villain!
S&S with Alan was in 1995.
I’ve loved him since Quigley Down Under
I thought that came out after Robin Hood. I loved Quigley Down Under as well, though he was a bit more detestable in that one.
Good movie though. I liked Cora.
Hollister? What does the little town to the east of me have to do with shopping? I mean, it's an interesting place, where the fault lines have split sidewalks and left deep rips in the asphalt that constantly has to be repaired...
But shopping?
I've now eaten but I don't think it will do any good. I couldn't sleep last night; I kept itching all night--it's making me nuts.
The button, not the sweater coat. :)
Julie - We never enter Hollister. All this time I thought the store at the mall that stunk like eucalyptus was A&F, but it was actually the Hollister. We do not enter that store. Ever.
Now I remember Quigley. Tom Selleck is my mom's be all and end all pretend boyfriend. She wore a button with his face on her sweater coat for years. She probably still has it. LOL!
WanderWanderWanderrrrrCHance you are not helping!
And is it wrong that I’m having this fantasy of sending my DD out to Cali to go shopping with Chance ... at the Original Hollister! LOL just thinking about it! heeheeheeeee ...
Trust me, Julie...nothing much to buy at earthquake central... Really, the San Andreas Fault runs right through Hollister and causes all sorts of interesting misallignments...
Is that a word? Misallignments? Well, it should be.
I was thinking about villains I've written. I had one that was really rotten, but mostly offscreen. I had my leads slip into an alternate world and face him again...only this time they turned him into an eventual ally.
Does that count?
Wait, what are we counting?
Where did DRD go? The wench!
We do not enter that store. Ever.
Terri! *gasp!* You Villain, you!
All joking aside, I don’t blame you. And how old is your DD? Ten? NO WAY would I take a ten year old there … or an eleven year old or a …
But my daughter is 17. She’s 5’1” a 105 pounds and a size two. Clothes that fit her are hard to find. So … what can I do? At least the stuff lasts , and I have a feeling that she isn’t going to have a growth spurt. So I look at it as a “long term investment”!
Really, the San Andreas Fault runs right through Hollister and causes all sorts of interesting misallignments…
Yah. In my Wallet!
Speaking of wallets , what did you say that we are supposed to be counting, Chance? Focus …focus… uuhh what was I supposed to be counting again?
Oh?! Villains!
Does the CAPTCHA Code count?
You had a villainous CAPTCHA Code? Did it sneer at you?
I have seen the store in a few of the malls and wondered... "Exactly what would Hollister be selling that would interest anyone?"
I can't go into Hollister because the smell makes me nauseus. My daughter is 11, but she's 5'4" and wears a lady's 11/12. And we haven't even begun the growth spurt.
*sigh*
Well, I'm 50 and a size *mumble mumble* so I don't imagine Hollister would hold much to interest me... Maybe I'll go stroll through Macy's this afternoon...
Okay, I'm back. It's wicked hot out there today -- like 96. *panting*
So what did I miss?
Oohhhh....burn.
Alan Rickman stopped by and said he preferred brunettes. He said Richard A. agrees with him.
Hey, what she gets for flitting off and letting us try to entertain ourselves...
OMG! You are EVIL. LOL
*takes pretend boyfriends and locks herself in cabin*
;-)
Mouse disrespector.
LMFAO!!
What's a mouse disrespector?
Mighty Mouse will be revenged!
*snicker
Why did you go out in the hot, hot day, Donnaroo?
I had to drop off my rent check. :) Afterwards, I went to Borders, but I didn't buy anything -- nothing struck me like I hoped it would.
Yeah, they just don't make striking books like they used to... I imagine a bookstore in Hogwarts where the books jump and shout, jiggle on the shelves... "Pick me! Pick me!"
Well, I read Kresley Cole's new book a couple days ago, and that was awesome. :) But everything I picked up today that I thought I'd like. . .well, maybe the heat fried my brain or something! LOL
*swoons
I love a man in a top hat!
Donna: And of course you like those bad girls — that’s why you’re here with us, right? :)
I was referring to fictional characters of course. Around here, I hope that I'm the perfect gentleman, enjoying the erudite discussion and repartee, and Helli's parodies. .... *lifts top hat and bows* :lol:
Q, you are indeed the perfect gentleman! (For calling our bawdy comments "erudite discussion and repartee". LOL)
I think we should all have top hats now. :)
He do have a way wit' words, don't 'e?
My turn for a sustenance break...
Good discussion going on here. I also love a good villain and more importantly, I love making him do something extra nice, like tipping a pregnant waitress an extra twenty bucks. That said, I also love making my hero do something villainous. The great Donald Maass said - whatever the one thing your character would absolutely not do - make him do it. The fun is in redeeming him in the end.
I just got home from a HS reunion where I saw a few guys I had dated before hubby (HS sweetheart) and I realized all of them were too nice for me. I liked the adventurous, not afraid to take risks kind of guy. In fact, I married my bad boy.
Great blog, Donna.
Liz, I have a mad crush on Donald Maass, and I try to keep that in mind about making the character do what they absolutely would not do. (Although sometimes I'm too much of a softie! LOL)
And high five to you for marrying your bad boy. LOL It's nice that you got to compare the ones you threw back. :) That's the best part about reunions.
Well Liz, hell-ooohhhh!
*Gasp*
Liz has recipes?! How come we never have recipes? Granted we have booze. But still. You can't live on rum a lone ... trust me on that one. S’ wouldn’t be nice to share a recipe or two … like real comrades?
Sigh.
Then again … Chance would probably tell me something like “Julie, you have to put a shot of axle grease in your Black Russian. That way yor drink will be nice ‘n black & it'll go down real smooth!”
She's been peeking at my bar menu again.
I have a top hat!
I have a top.
Does that count?
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