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Tuesday, August 24, 2010
Inspiration in All the Wrong (Right) Places
“I Get Off” Halestorm (Halestorm, 2009)
I just saw them live. I love the energy in a crowd during a concert. I may not be a people liking type of person; but there is nothing like a pit full of women under the scorching sun screaming, “I get off on you, getting off on me. Give you what you want, but nothing is for free.”
I’ve debated how to learn more about the relationship between my hero and heroine. I’m not writing a heavy romance novel where there is lots of hot sex between them to build momentum to a HFN/HEA. My heroine really can’t stand the sight of the hero. They have a past with some complications. The hero really isn’t doing himself any favors by coming back into my heroine’s life. He’s just serving a reminder that she’s still hopelessly in love with him after he broke her very young and naïve heart. She’s very determined that will never happen again, especially with him.
Let’s be honest. As the writer, the characters are under (loosely) my control for the time being. I’ve furiously scribbled in my notebook for a few weeks now notes on how to make this story work and potentially make a series work between them and resolve even their relationship by the end. I understand the attraction between them. If you’ve ever wanted something you knew you’d never have again, it only serves to fuel the flames. The hero knows what he’s done (he’s justified it in his mind) but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want what’s “his”. (Men are so arrogant. Well, 99.98%- just to cover my ass.) My heroine is so torn when they are together. She wants to prove that she’s indifferent to him now. Now that she’s older, less naïve and more worldly. But she still remembers everything about him and it embarrasses her to think she can’t get past that part of her life.
So I was in a curious predicament of my own making. I don’t plot. But I needed a way to figure out how to make the H/H have a semblance of a stable working relationship while I finish the first book and launch into a series.
So last Thursday while cleaning the house I’m dancing around in the kitchen with the vacuum and these lyrics inspired a thought in my head.
“You don’t know that I know you watch me every night.
And I just can’t resist the urge to stand here in the light.
Your greedy eyes upon me, and then I come undone.
I could close the curtain… But this is too much fun.” (Halestorm, 2009)
Sounds like a good erotica fiction in the making, doesn’t it? I thought to myself, maybe I should just write a little snippet scene between my H/H that definitely won’t make it into the final draft but will help me grasp the tension between the two better.
No, I haven’t yet, but I’ve seen it. It’s good. That should make for utmost extra embarrassment come morning time. I do enjoy mortifying characters. God knows I blush way too much in my own life to not make everyone in my fictional world do the same. If I’ve learned anything from a life of people watching is that interaction with one another is an art form that each of us takes different brushes to paint with. No two interactions are ever the same, even if you interact with the same person over and over again. The interaction is always evolving and that’s how I look at writing my H/H relationship. They have to evolve to move the story. I have to evolve as the writer to keep up.
What inspires your scenes between your characters other than the natural flow of the story? Do you get passing thoughts? See scenes play out in front of you as if you’re watching a movie? Hear a song on the radio and think “AHA!”? Eavesdrop on a conversation as you’re passing by and get inspired to take it in a different direction?
I just saw them live. I love the energy in a crowd during a concert. I may not be a people liking type of person; but there is nothing like a pit full of women under the scorching sun screaming, “I get off on you, getting off on me. Give you what you want, but nothing is for free.”
I’ve debated how to learn more about the relationship between my hero and heroine. I’m not writing a heavy romance novel where there is lots of hot sex between them to build momentum to a HFN/HEA. My heroine really can’t stand the sight of the hero. They have a past with some complications. The hero really isn’t doing himself any favors by coming back into my heroine’s life. He’s just serving a reminder that she’s still hopelessly in love with him after he broke her very young and naïve heart. She’s very determined that will never happen again, especially with him.
Let’s be honest. As the writer, the characters are under (loosely) my control for the time being. I’ve furiously scribbled in my notebook for a few weeks now notes on how to make this story work and potentially make a series work between them and resolve even their relationship by the end. I understand the attraction between them. If you’ve ever wanted something you knew you’d never have again, it only serves to fuel the flames. The hero knows what he’s done (he’s justified it in his mind) but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want what’s “his”. (Men are so arrogant. Well, 99.98%- just to cover my ass.) My heroine is so torn when they are together. She wants to prove that she’s indifferent to him now. Now that she’s older, less naïve and more worldly. But she still remembers everything about him and it embarrasses her to think she can’t get past that part of her life.
So I was in a curious predicament of my own making. I don’t plot. But I needed a way to figure out how to make the H/H have a semblance of a stable working relationship while I finish the first book and launch into a series.
So last Thursday while cleaning the house I’m dancing around in the kitchen with the vacuum and these lyrics inspired a thought in my head.
“You don’t know that I know you watch me every night.
And I just can’t resist the urge to stand here in the light.
Your greedy eyes upon me, and then I come undone.
I could close the curtain… But this is too much fun.” (Halestorm, 2009)
Sounds like a good erotica fiction in the making, doesn’t it? I thought to myself, maybe I should just write a little snippet scene between my H/H that definitely won’t make it into the final draft but will help me grasp the tension between the two better.
No, I haven’t yet, but I’ve seen it. It’s good. That should make for utmost extra embarrassment come morning time. I do enjoy mortifying characters. God knows I blush way too much in my own life to not make everyone in my fictional world do the same. If I’ve learned anything from a life of people watching is that interaction with one another is an art form that each of us takes different brushes to paint with. No two interactions are ever the same, even if you interact with the same person over and over again. The interaction is always evolving and that’s how I look at writing my H/H relationship. They have to evolve to move the story. I have to evolve as the writer to keep up.
What inspires your scenes between your characters other than the natural flow of the story? Do you get passing thoughts? See scenes play out in front of you as if you’re watching a movie? Hear a song on the radio and think “AHA!”? Eavesdrop on a conversation as you’re passing by and get inspired to take it in a different direction?
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100 comments:
Good question...I'm working on a knot myself. With a heroine who was abused as a child by a man who she was literally given to. 30 years later and although she got away from him when 15, after 8 years of...well...abuse... She can't seem to get past the idea that it was her fault. That she should have done something to resist him. She blames herself for the guilt and even the twisted thing she thought was love...
So, how to shake her out of it? I have a character prepared to do so. To show total furiousity in the face of this guilt...to do something to shake this 45 year old woman out of three decades of being twisted... To open her heart to the hero, unaware of this twist. (Bare with me, he'll get to kill her abuser...or help her do it...or together they'll watch him boil in oil or something really nefarious...)
And I'm fighting to find the words that will work to unlock the interior prison the heroine is in...and listening to Evanescence, Lacuna Coil...to music. For the right words, empathy, anger, epiphany...
Sin, I love to hear how characters evolve in the author's mind!
Evolution is such a powerful and versatile concept.
At the moment I'm reading Zoltan Torey's 'Crucible of consciousness' and he gives one of the best explanations of conscious mind that I have seen.
Basically, language facilitates our feeling of awareness and enables thought processes to supersede instinctive reactions.
The thought process allows you as an author to influence the character's evolution through a kind of feedback process, adding non-linearity to the cauldron.
When writing a short story I do see the action in my mind's eye. I have a very visual mind which is good for geometry .... visualizing topological spaces helps no end .... but its also brilliant for writing scenes. If you can visualize it all happening then you simply have to describe what you see with words.
Isn't the evolving mind a wonderful beast! :D
PS
Sin, as you also think in a very visual way, do go easy on any erotica that might tempt. We would hate for you to blow a gasket! :wink:
I get flashes of inspiration all the time. Books I read, movies I watch. People I see in the mall. Just randomness. If the ideas are straightforward, usually I can remember them until I get back to my story or I write them down in the little notebook I carry with me.
What's been happening to me a lot lately is that my idea isn't a specific one (ie, hero should go there or say this) but an overarching one. Like, my hero should think the villain is after my heroine, but really the villain's anger is directed toward the hero. The reasons behind this are so vast that it will impact every nook and cranny of my story. How the villain searches for her. What he decides to do to get his vengeance, etc. I write that idea down, but many times the flashes happen so fast or at such inopportune times, I've forgotten some ways I'd figured out to implement this.
Like when I decided that my hero should feel more social disgrace. I had bright ideas about this but I was in the grocery store's deli line. Somewhere between ordering a pound of roast beef, calming a fussy newborn, and telling my toddler he needed to stop trying to stand up in the basket, I forgot half the shit I'd been thinking about. So I was left with the general idea but missing some of the flashes of "brilliance" that seem to accompany a new idea.
I get inspired by so many random things, that I pretty much feel like I just wander around with my eyes and ears open. Which takes some doing on my part, because I generally like to tune out the stuff around me. LOL
The other day I was at Starbucks, frustrated because I couldn't get a handle on my heroine, so I was scribbling notes and not getting anywhere. There was a guy pacing as he waited for his drink, and he had on a T-shirt that caught my eye, and then he did this little gesture -- I laughed, and all of a sudden the heroine's ex was fully formed in my mind. It wasn't the guy I'd just been looking at, but he definitely sparked something in my brain.
A couple days later my heroine showed up in my brain. LOL And I'm not exactly sure how that happened.
So I just let my eyes and ears collect things they find intriguing, and then they stir it around and turn it into something else. LOL
If the story is going particularly well, I see vivid images--like bits of a movie playing, usually the funny or emotional parts--if the story is in the foremost of my mind, constantly twirling through my brain, then there is a better chance of nearly anything inspiring me: books, movies, car rides, conversations, the gym, a blog, whatever.
The longer I'm away from writing and the story, the less I have these things happen. It's sorta like going blind. Or deaf--I'm not sure which one. Maybe both since I don't usually hear or see them anymore. It's more like losing my 6th sense--writing was my 6th sense and characters were willing to communicate. The less I write, the less they communicate.
Like when I decided that my hero should feel more social disgrace. I had bright ideas about this but I was in the grocery store’s deli line. Somewhere between ordering a pound of roast beef, calming a fussy newborn, and telling my toddler he needed to stop trying to stand up in the basket, I forgot half the shit I’d been thinking about. So I was left with the general idea but missing some of the flashes of “brilliance” that seem to accompany a new idea.
*snorts with laughter* I can so identify with this. (Well, not the kids part, but the inopportune timing and not getting the "brilliance" down in time. Don't worry, Marn. Remember Rowling said she didn't have a pen and paper when she first got her idea about Harry Potter. She had to ride that whole train ride and not write a blessed thing down. It worked out.
I'm not an Orson Scott Card fan, but I do agree with one statement he made: "Everybody walks past a thousand story ideas every day. The good writers are the ones who see five or six of them." People watching, driving, listening to music, and reading--all of these give me ideas for scenes in my current wip or some yet-to-be-begun work. The trick, as Marnee said, is to capture the idea on paper before it floats away like that elusive red balloon.
I think in scenes, and I write non-linearly. Consequently, I have countless scenes or bits of scenes that I've written in a notebook, on the back of an envelope, or on a paper napkin. Some of them I have uses, some I will use, and some of them will probably stay forever in the button box. When I was writing poetry, I did the same thing with lines. I have published poems that were built on one line of an overheard conversation, an object that caught my attention, and an image that surfaced in a dream.
I'm in a haiku mood today.
I broke my mojo.
Writing is such a trial.
I am a dead shark.
That's reassuring, Hellie, because I'm like Marn, worrying about not capturing these flashes of brilliance. It's like chasing lightning bugs sometimes. LOL
And then when I do write things down, I've got a zillion little scraps of paper to try to decipher!
I like your description of it being a "sixth sense" -- that is what it's like, this crazy writing thing. :)
One of my favorite parts on the JK Rowling "Year in the Life" documentary she did, she points to a scribble in her notebook or on a post-it and says, "Look, I've made a note for myself. 'This will need to be planned very carefully.'" And then she laughs at herself.
I'm one of most un-observant people I know. I can sit somewhere for hours and not notice the people around me, save in some mild blurry fashion.
Sigh.
Most of the actual ideas come from dreams, or daydreaming while in the car and driving. (Hey! At least I'm not on my cell phone and trying to paint my fingernails at the same time!)
Don't these people know I have something better to do today than to sit in here and work? *muttering* The new system is supposed to make things better, not make people more incompetent.
Okay. I need to read the comments. Gimme a second to situate myself.
That's the funny thing, Chance -- I don't really observe people, because it can be too much work. LOL When I'm walking in a crowd, for example, I have my blinders up in that blurry way you describe, so I can make sure I don't bump into them but I don't notice their details.
Maybe it's just sitting in Starbucks where there's a steady stream of people coming through that I notice the details.
I probably get most of my ideas from staring out the window, or driving, or in the shower -- must be some kind of trance mode. LOL
Chanceroo, I really love how your mind works sometimes. You had me at "boil him in oil".
I listen to a lot of music (as you know) for inspiration. Usually Amy Lee's voice (Evanescence) tends to put me in a state of useful creativity. She's so haunted. When she sings, her voice and the lyrics are one. I know it's because she writes her own lyrics, therefore it's more soulful, but you have to have a tie to what you're doing to make it believable to the masses.
I've been repeating "In Visible Light" by Lacuna Coil. (Karmacode). I really like it. It's been pretty good for a scene I've been working on lately. Do you have it?
Q, I also have a visual mind except mine does not help me with geometry.
At this point I will be doing good to create any sense of "erotic" feeling between my H/H. While my heroine wants to have sex with him, any feeling that may go into "wanting" him is being pushed aside and ignored. The fighting between them is wonderful though. All those repressed feelings have to make their way to the surface somehow.
I agree. The creative mind is a wonderful ever-evolving beast. It can't be controlled. It's truly wonderful.
When I’m walking in a crowd, for example, I have my blinders up in that blurry way you describe, so I can make sure I don’t bump into them but I don’t notice their details.
I do that too! LOL! I just never really thought about it. I also do it to avoid eye contact *g*
I'm not very observant either, but I do get flashes of scenes in my head. No idea where they come from or what triggers them. But like Hellie, if thing are going well, they come fast. And then they're easy to lose. When I'm not writing, forget it. Then I have to try to come up with it on my own, and it's never as good as the scenes that show up spontaneous in my head
Crazy morning at work, but I've been following along. Count me as not the most observant, and even when I do observe something good, I rarely remember it. I can't even remember good jokes anymore.
Most all of my ideas come while I'm drifting off, and a few drift up when I'm on long roadtrips. I do see scenes in my mind, but they aren't always sharp. Definitely not seeing the stories in HD. But even when I do see them, I'm still not good at describing them. Very irksome.
From time to time I hear a song I know would go perfectly with a story or character, but the work inspires me to find notice the song, not the other way around. Except one time. Alicia Keys latest song, I'm Ready (Unthinkable) inspired the love scene for the next WIP. It just inspired it about six months too early. *sigh*
Ter, what is it with people. All I want to do is play on the blog but everyone has ideas about what I can do today and it's not playing on the blog. I want to nail boards over my windows and door and paint "KEEP OUT" over it.
Hells - “Look, I’ve made a note for myself. ‘This will need to be planned very carefully.’” And then she laughs at herself.
Hahahahahaha!! This sounds like my notes sometimes. I read them later and think, "What in the name of the virgin was I thinking here?"
Within minutes of arriving, I got a large Fedex box filled with checks for processing. Took me all morning. Now I can try to figure out what I intended to do before that box arrived. These people act like they pay me or something...
I have postits all over my desk with numbers on them. Phone numbers and other numbers. No idea what any of them are for.
LOL -- it's like finding a key, and I don't know what it's for, because I haven't seen it for months -- I don't even recognize it, but I ALWAYS ALWAYS think, "I better not throw this away. It obviously goes to something." LOL
Donna I do that too! I have keys to who knows what. Probably to old apartments or sheds or whatever. Probably makes those new inhabitants feel good....
Screw it. I'm going to lunch. I will reply when I get back or start ice picking people who get in my way.
And apparently I've found a new way to bold.
LOL, Ter, sounds like my desk. I have a post it note on my desk. It says:
"Formatting from vendors.
Testing new format."
and that's all it says. LOL
LOL! How did you do that?!
I found the key for the truck I owned three vehicles ago. It was in the pocket of a winter coat. :)
I have a key on my keychain right now that used to go to my mailbox, but kiddo bent the key and we had to get a new one. Why have I not thrown that away? It would throw off my keychain.
BTW - Did I miss something? What does the title of this blog mean?
I imagine the title has to do with how we get them at the wrong time for the wrong character and not when we need them for the right character.
Likes Sin's brainstorm of a great sex scene between two characters that aren't having sex...
I think.
But my head hurts a little bit so I could be wrong.
And Donnaroo? I don't even pay attention to my fellow 'buckians. Part of my super polite phobia. Either that or it's an ostrich thing. If I don't notice them, they won't notice me?
Why I'm opposed to be noticed is beyond me!
Sin - As soon as I leave here and get home, I'll find the song and listen to it...
Chance, I generally keep to myself at Starbies, but then the other day a Chatty Cathy got a hold of me. I was this close to chewing off my arm to make my escape. Thank God she got a phone call.
And I'm off to get some groceries. It's still acting like November out there, so I don't want to leave the house, but if I don't, I'll be chewing on my arm for lunch! LOL
Donna - I thought of that same analogy the other day about getting out of this condo deal. I declared it the Coyote Ugly condo. LOL!
OK, I never saw the movie... What exactly does Coyote Ugly mean?
Coyote is when you wake up the next morning to a stranger you're so desperate to get away from without waking him up, you're willing to chew your own arm off to get away.
Oh! Bad drink the night before mornings...got it!
I have no idea what illiterate person put that comment under my name. Must check my security...
Oooh! Is the blog haunted? ;-)
I declared it the Coyote Ugly condo
*snorts*
Ahoy, Pirates!
Great blogs the last couple of weeks, I've read them all, even when I couldn't post.
I love how Olivia Parker describes wtiting, she says she hears music in her head, and if she can't hear it or it's discordant, something is wrong. I am the same way. I "know" a couple of the big scenes, but it's always a surprise what happens between them.
Di
See scenes play out in front of you as if you’re watching a movie?
Yes. I See scenes. But this strange phenomena
just started this afternoon. I see scenes ... Scenes of Eternal Damnation!
At this rate I'll still be answering comments tomorrow.
LOL, Jules you've been seeing those forever.
Arguing fcking patients. If you are late for your appt, don't rag on the staff and then whine to me and then take it up with the DR. The DR doesn't give a shit. Just saying.
Ugh. Is this week over yet?
Ter, on the bolding. All I did was use <> to signify that I was putting in a spacial paragraph between my sentences as it was written out on the post-it.
It's not the Hat Thrower, is it? *LOL*
OMG. It's the better (worse) half of the hat thrower. I swear I have the craziest fcking patients this side of the Mississippi.
Funny that it didn't bold everything that came after like our italics nazi likes to do.
I don't even interract with the public and I want this week to be over.
Well, I did my "interacting with the public" for the day. LOl I have to get out once every few days so people don't think I'm Boo Radley.
Love the Coyote Ugly reference about getting away from coffee-house crazies AND condos. LOL
Okay, I just might have to go watch some more Richard Armitage. I think one or two more episodes and he just MIGHT start falling in love with me. LOL
Unrelated to this topic but.... I just axed almost 10K out of my story last night/today. Just wasn't working, completely wasn't feeling it. Feeling a little like someone just stole money out of my purse.
So, kind of in need of a little "it'll be alright, Marn" and a "they're only words, Marn." Or even a "maybe little elves will come and replace those three chapters for you, Marn."
But please don't remind me that I'm now only at 30K when last night I was at 40K.
Donna - Are you in season 2? You have to let me know what you think of the finale. I've never gotten to discuss it with another adult before. LOL!
*pats Marn on the shoulder*
It'll be alright, Gunner. You'll...I mean....those little elves will drop off new words within a week or two.
Feeling a little like someone just stole money out of my purse.
The perfect analogy for it. *LOL*
As the saying goes, you mustn't be afraid to "kill your darlings"--and if they're not working, they're not working. Kinda like one of those bonsai trees, where you pruned back a few branches for the sake of the tree. Don't worry. You still have a tree.
I could swear, Bo'sun, WE discussed the finale of Season 2, but I'm guessing the key word of your sentence was "adult"?
Marn, I applaud you and admire you for cutting 10k. I'm actually feeling a little breathless as I type this. LOL But save those words, in case they can be used later in this manuscript. Or maybe they'll be like "DVD Extras" on your website, things like that -- so you don't feel lost without them.
P.S. Now that's what I call "Coyote Editing". LOL
*blows nose loudly into a tissue*
Thanks Bo'sun. I just hope the little bastards don't pickpocket anymore. And if they do, they can take the rest of the words I wrote in my third trimester. Utter garbage.
*sighs*
Kinda like one of those bonsai trees, where you pruned back a few branches for the sake of the tree. Don’t worry. You still have a tree.
You're right. My idea still feels fine; my execution there, not so good. What I replace it with will be better.
It has to be.... :)
DVD extras. LOL!
I did save them. If nothing else, there's snippets of backstory in there I worked out at the time. I don't want to do all that thinking over again.
Terri, I actually finished Season 2 last night and dove right into Season 3. I miss a couple of my fave characters. And I don't miss another one. LOL But it will definitely change the dynamic, and I'm not sure how good that is.
Also, even though I love long hair on men I'm still not sure about RA's hair this season -- liked it better before. I'll have to discuss it with him. LOL
I may get shot down with rotten fruit here, but I'm not feeling Richard Armitage. I've never watched anything with him in it, so I'm just going by pictures.
Maybe I need to see him act....
*pelts Marn with rotten fruit*
I was the same way, Marn. Everyone went on and on about the guy in North and South, and I was all "yeah, whatever" because it didn't sound that interesting.
Then I watched it. And I got caught up in the story (not wild about the heroine, but that happens).
The moment I fell in love is at the end, when she's telling him how she feels and his face is TRANSFORMED. He does a lot of scowling and frowning in the miniseries, but when he realizes she cares for him the way he does. . .I melted.
And in Robin Hood -- his voice and OMG the black leather outfit. *holds on to railing to keep from swooning right overboard* He's definitely one you gotta see in action. LOL
Pictures alone wouldn't do it. You need to hear his growly voice and see him burning in action. He does broody well. I'd recommend North & South; however, that is a 4 hour movie and I doubt you have four minutes to watching the man be broody.
But there is this scene in North & South, where the heroine is leaving (forever) and the snow is falling and he's watching her go, looking devastated, and he's whispering: "Look at me. Look back at me." *swoons*
And then there is the train kiss. *swoons again*
It's good. I know Bo'sun doesn't like the heroine; but I did. Both her and Thornton are very overbearing; and it's interesting to watch both of them soften and change over the course of the story. It seems like an equal character arc. (Though I'd say the story belongs to the heroine; the heroine changes more...because I feel by the end of the movie she's a lot softer and more understanding than she was in the beginning.)
"Look at me. Look back at me."
I didn't even have to see this and I'm swooning. That's good dialogue. :)
I do love some broody men. Maybe my hero needs to brood more.... *pondering. preparing to hit the elves up on my cell phone.*
Too funny, Hellie! We're both raving about him at the same time! If Marn doesn't watch it NOW. LOL
Heck, I might go watch it on Netflix again just to see the train scene (which I forgot about -- thanks for the reminder!)
I have Netflix. Maybe I'll watch it there....
So dark and brooding with leather pants.
Ok, ok. Sign me up.
Marn, it will be okay. Just like they said, in a couple of days you'll have a new 10k (probably more) and be feeling the story again. I think (don't stone me pirates) that sometimes you just gotta cut what's not working to move forward.
That's WASN'T counting.
Gah!
Damn it, VP showed up at my door ready to "chat". Now I'm behind.
Hellie - Did you actually watch the show? I was counting me ranting about it with you as the sounding board as discussing. But I've slept since then and have no recollections now. I just know kiddo and I talked about it endlessly.
Now I'm headed home. Will catch up there.
Here's the look back at me clip--though it's better in context because these two have been FIGHTING for three hours of movie and they've only just started to get along and now she's LEAVING.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVaelFbNxFw
Whoever did the musical score for this mini-series should be paid handsomely. I would LOVE the musical score to this movie.
The train scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyYiwD1Q1aY&feature=related
Marn, if you have Netflix, you should be able to see North and South and the Robin Hood series on the "Watch Instantly" thing they have. It's on your computer, which some people don't like. I actually prefer to watch on my laptop, because the screen is better (and I can have it closer -- easier to see -- LOL).
And you don't have to wait for discs to arrive. :)
Gah, I had to approve my own comment.
I saw a clip, which is what I suspect was the end of Season 2 and went "HOLY SHIT!" And sad little person I am, all I could think was, "Poor Guy, he HAD to do it." *LOL*
I sympathize, Marn, but it will be all right. if it's any consolation, you did what defines a writer, at least according to John Hersey: "To be a writer is to throw away a great deal, not to be satisfied, to type again, and then again, and once more, and over and over...."
Hellie, you're too funny! (I kinda felt the same way!)
And, for the record, I drafted my post for next week a few days ago. LOL So when you see the topic you won't all go, "for the love of Pete, what is wrong with her?" LOL
“To be a writer is to throw away a great deal, not to be satisfied, to type again, and then again, and once more, and over and over….”
Maybe just once more over? Please? LOL!
And yay watch instantly. Maybe I can catch some tonight while I'm rocking the baby down.... :)
OK, I watched the clips and am so confused... All this time I figure when you talked about North & South you were talking about the Civil War mini series based on John Jakes' books...
I thought the same thing, Chance, which is why I avoided it for the longest time.
Which should be a lesson to me about what I miss out when I make assumptions. LOL
Sorry, Chance, two different mini-series, though I like both greatly. (SUCH a N&S/Patrick Swayze fan when I was a kid, but for me, this blows it out of the water. The drama is confined to a manageable amount of people--and the love story is awesome. There comes a point in N&S, about the time Kristie Alley, is living with her husband and starving, that you get to be, "This is a little over the top, don't you think?")
I don't remember a whole lot about the mini-series, to be truthful. Though David Carridien (sp?) played an awesome villain...I remember that!
Really, you guys kept talking about an actor who would be in a Robin Hood mini series by the BBC and a Civil War epic a few decades old and I just had no idea what the heck was going on!
LOL!
David Carridine as Justin. *shivers* He was AWFUL. I can't stand to see movies with him in it because he was so evil in this mini-series. Because when you watch N&S as an impressionable young thing (12 or so), you're watching for Patrick Swayze and it's OH-SO-ROMANTIC, but I've seen it since then, and I'm all about the Yankee now. I prefer him and his Irish wife. *LOL*
I do remember liking the Yankee...
Nope, don't like the heroine in the Armitage N&S. She's a shrew with little reason and then INSTANTLY is lovey and amiable. I didn't buy it. BUT, I haven't read the book, might like that better.
Donna - That "other" character you don't miss? Just wait.
So, I caught a small clip on YouTube from the Robin Hood series... uh... Funny, I don't remember that part from the book...
Chance, you can't really expect historical accuracy or continuity in this Robin Hood -- if you do, you'll have a fit and fall in it. LOL Like this one episode where they were trying to fleece a rich gambler -- and it looked like they had set up a Las Vegas casino in the castle, and the women were wearing outfits that were very modern, but as if they WANTED them to look modern. LOL
Terri, I agree with you about the N&S heroine. I was so fed up with her. He deserved so much better (i.e., US! LOL) Which is pretty much how I felt about Marian -- I know she was necessary for the whole love triangle thing, but gah. She drove me nuts.
Chance couldn't possibly be complaining about historical accuracy. What a farce that would be.
And I'm not really complaining...just...wondered!
Hey! Farce!? I'm not complaining about HISTORICAL accuracy, but FICTIONAL accuracy! There is a difference!
I understand the enmity toward the heroine, but have either you watched it more than once? I admit I didn't care for her the first couple of times--she is a holier-than-thou prig, but that's her charm. She eventually gets over it.
Is it wrong of me to say that I prefer the heroine because the book was written in the actual time period so I think the heroine is actually displaying actual views and behaviors of the period? I cracked up that she has a fit about him shaking her hand BAREHANDED and she's not used to it.
And if anyone is unbearable--it's the SISTER. Ugh. She's the worst! *LOL*
Well, that I could give you. There are so many instances where the book is better than the movie or show. You never think that about history--that the HISTORY was so much better than the movie, mainly because if they're doing a movie about it, it's about the black plague or slavery or lack of hygiene and no one ever thinks, "Gosh, I wish I would have experienced real slavery or lack of hygiene first hand and not the Hollywood fluffy version."
Hellie, I've only watched it once (so far), so I am only going by memory here. What I didn't care for seemed to stem from inconsistency on her part. And that's usually the fault of the script, not the actor or actress. I don't remember having any complaints about historical aspects -- if I do, it's usually because they're acting too modern rather than in keeping with their era.
Now I must, in the name of research, watch N&S again. :)
Hmmm. I don't know if I'd always blame the script. Please recall this book was written in the same era of Wuthering Heights: an inconsistent heroine was apparently the "in" thing. And I think we can all agree: we hate Cathy.
Don't ya love the idea of a fictional accuracy?
The irony of the phrase is sublime, yes. But the concept I agree with.
I can sympathize if the inconsistency stems from a genuine internal struggle on the character's part. But if it's because they need to create "conflict" or a problem for the characters to experience, that's when I grind my teeth. (Chance, I think that's where "fictional accuracy" applies!)
For instance, in a Robin Hood last night, this new woman that I'm going to be hating. . . LOL She asks for Robin's help, they all sneak up on the bad guys, Robin says, "Wait here", and before he can get the words out the cuckoo woman runs out and starts pounding on the bad guys with her fists.
Now why would you ask Robin's gang to help you and then you don't follow his instructions? LOL It was just one of many examples. Maybe it made me crankier because RA wasn't in this episode to give my eyes a rest. LOL
Well, you're kinda talking about cultural/sociological accuracy, Donna. I'm talking about don't mess with the legend script. I mean, it's cool if you want to fatten up the legend with some internal/external conflict...but good guys become bad guys? Lead characters die?
Why not just write a whole new story if you are going to change it that much?
Unless you're going for the whole 'dread pirates roberts' scenario which they did in another BBC Robin Hood series... "Legend"...? Where Robin is more of an archtypal role that is passed on...
Ah, I see what you're talking about, Chance. I was combining too many ingredients in my post. :) You're right - they are playing fast and loose with the story, so they should say "inspired by", or call it something else, like "Robin in the Hood". :)
Blackbird in the Bush?
Wren in the Woods?
Sparrow Shawl? The Legend of Sparrow Shawl!
LOL!
This Robin Hood is so far out as to be farcical. One more step to the left and it would have been Monty Python does Robin Hood.
But I liked Marian. :)
I did only watch the miniseries once, but as I remember, she never changed. Never budged not one bit and was awfully self-righteous. I'm not a fan of self-righteous characters. Another viewing could change my opinion.
Marian was indeed self-righteous, and inconsistent, and contrary, and one big giant hemmorhoidal pain in the ass. LOL
I would have liked her MUCH better if she'd struggled with her fascination with Guy (Richard Armitage), and if she wouldn't have argued ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME with Robin, no matter what he said. LOL
She was exhausting. The sad thing is I think the new woman is going to be worse. LOL
The new woman is horrid. Consider your instincts sharp. LOL!
Now see, I liked Marian. Though I'll give you totally inconsistent. One minute she was bitching and Robin and the next minute she was kissing him. And then she'd smile and be sweet and do something absolutely stupid. I did like how she exited her wedding to Guy though. LOL!
And I hated that they killed her. Many other fans were irate as well. Lit up the net at the time.
Oh, God -- I should just stop watching now then! LOL
I've decided the reason I don't like Marian is because she was superficial. If there was a logical choice or a contrary one, without fail she would choose the contrary one. And it wasn't because she was trying to do "the right thing".
The first time it LOOKED like she died, I thought, "Finally!" But then seeing how heartbroken Robin was, I was glad she revived herself.
And the WAY she got killed was brilliant because it gives plenty of angst to Guy and Robin, and increases their conflict.
This is why I don't watch very much TV. LOL It takes up more time (and my brain space) than it should!
Oh, I forgot about the first time she nearly died. Yeah, that was believable. LOL! With every episode, there were more and more "OH COME ON!" exclamations. LOL!
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