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Friday, July 16, 2010
Discovery
Since I’ve taken up writing, I’ve discovered a part of my imagination I never knew I had. I was a decent paper writer in school. I never lacked for something to say (It’s been said that’s because I’m opinionated- I say it’s because I’m right. Always.) and that was no different when it came to writing out history and English papers. But I always excelled at the creative writing part. I thought that was because I always read during class and could easily recall something I read to tweak it into my imagination and make something else.
In fact, one of my favorite creative writing projects was my senior year and I wrote about a girl who died in a car accident and haunted her still living boyfriend in his dreams. The story grew to 30 pages- accident of course- and I stayed up all night writing it. My fingers had pencil stains on them for weeks.
I spent the majority of my high school career (when I was required to write creatively) hating it. I loathed creative writing during the year. First of all, you’re TOLD what to write about. We all know I hate to be told what to do. My brain doesn’t work by being told WHAT to write about. My brain just wants to form an idea and go with it. Second of all, it has to be CLEAN writing. Anyone who has ever gotten their hands on something I’ve written knows that my favorite words are four letters and sex and murder are my favorite ways to fill up a page. And third (and just as important) really the teacher doesn’t appreciate a good effort of imagination. I didn’t exactly have the best grasp on grammar and punctuation when I was in high school. I preferred to read, but eventually you get tired of seeing all the red marks on the page with comments of “I couldn’t follow the story because there are too many characters” or “You started out in third person and switched to first. THIRD PERSON only was the assignment”. No “wonderful usage of history in your story” or “way to use your imagination on this futuristic take on our planet”.
Honestly, I struggled because third person is a foreign language to me while writing. I just couldn’t figure out the mechanics. I’m an ADHD writer. I can’t have the ability to head hop or I will opt for it and often. And I always see the story from one POV. While I know how it ends, I don’t always see what everyone else is doing around me. So I didn’t pursue it. I was under the impression that first person POV wasn’t done (and I hadn’t read any books done in first person). And since I can’t grasp third person, I told myself reading was enough.
Obviously, reading is never going to be enough. I need my characters. I need my life through fiction. I need the ability to express myself through words just as much as I need spontaneity and routine. It’s the balance that keeps me going. And finding the right way to express my imagination has done wonders for my writing ability.
So, is a particular POV easier for you than another? When reading, do you prefer to read third person or first? What do you think you miss while reading either POV?
In fact, one of my favorite creative writing projects was my senior year and I wrote about a girl who died in a car accident and haunted her still living boyfriend in his dreams. The story grew to 30 pages- accident of course- and I stayed up all night writing it. My fingers had pencil stains on them for weeks.
I spent the majority of my high school career (when I was required to write creatively) hating it. I loathed creative writing during the year. First of all, you’re TOLD what to write about. We all know I hate to be told what to do. My brain doesn’t work by being told WHAT to write about. My brain just wants to form an idea and go with it. Second of all, it has to be CLEAN writing. Anyone who has ever gotten their hands on something I’ve written knows that my favorite words are four letters and sex and murder are my favorite ways to fill up a page. And third (and just as important) really the teacher doesn’t appreciate a good effort of imagination. I didn’t exactly have the best grasp on grammar and punctuation when I was in high school. I preferred to read, but eventually you get tired of seeing all the red marks on the page with comments of “I couldn’t follow the story because there are too many characters” or “You started out in third person and switched to first. THIRD PERSON only was the assignment”. No “wonderful usage of history in your story” or “way to use your imagination on this futuristic take on our planet”.
Honestly, I struggled because third person is a foreign language to me while writing. I just couldn’t figure out the mechanics. I’m an ADHD writer. I can’t have the ability to head hop or I will opt for it and often. And I always see the story from one POV. While I know how it ends, I don’t always see what everyone else is doing around me. So I didn’t pursue it. I was under the impression that first person POV wasn’t done (and I hadn’t read any books done in first person). And since I can’t grasp third person, I told myself reading was enough.
Obviously, reading is never going to be enough. I need my characters. I need my life through fiction. I need the ability to express myself through words just as much as I need spontaneity and routine. It’s the balance that keeps me going. And finding the right way to express my imagination has done wonders for my writing ability.
So, is a particular POV easier for you than another? When reading, do you prefer to read third person or first? What do you think you miss while reading either POV?
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52 comments:
Wow, plan a playdate and lose Friday... To find Sin has covered it...
I've got one story I started in first person...not my preference, but I thought it wasn't bad. I should shoot it yer way one a' these days...see how it floats.
But I prefer to write third. Reading? I don't really have a preference... Though I must admit the last few books that had me head spinning were in first...but I don't think it was the POV that drove me bats.
Well, I'm off!
Have a great playdate chickie!
I've written in third person. I just don't enjoy it. While I may know what's going on in the rest of the story, I don't pretend to know how the rest of the population thinks or behaves. It's hard enough to get the emotions right in one person instead of a whole host of characters. I like writing where there is still a little mystery to some characters that associate with the main POV.
Shame on your teachers for not celebrating your creativity! I know it happens and I'm sure I've done it unintentionally, but I hate when a kid becomes discouraged about his/her writing, especially when kids come to it so eagerly at first. Since I'm a writer myself, I do try to think about how to critique a student's writing in a more encouraging way.
Now to your POV questions: Writing comes easier to me in first person. I often write difficult scenes in first person pov first and then revise them into third. I think it helps me to get into that "deep" pov for a character. The danger for keeping it in 1st is my tendency toward introspection. :)
I'm one of those readers who loves to know what the other characters think (especially the hero) and I've yet to master Lisa Kleypas's gift of being able to show all the levels when I write in first person. So, my manuscripts end up in the traditional third.
I like to read books in either first or third as long as they're done well. As I mentioned before, LK is a master at first person pov. When I finish her books, I often don't realize I've only been reading from one perspective.
Chance, have a great day of play! (I may have to do that too -- my brain is getting worn out. LOL)
I mainly wrote in 3rd until recently. I like being able to get inside other characters' heads, and show what they're thinking/feeling.
I've done 1st and love it -- there's an immediacy to it that is kinda addictive. LOL However, it can be tricky for the MC to figure out what the other characters are thinking/feeling -- but that worked to my advantage in this book, since it's got a mystery element.
I too spurn your teachers for not being more encouraging. Thankfully, kiddo had an awesome teacher this past year who really fostered her love of writing. She wrote things that blew me away. She works on a book on and off and it's all in first person. In fact, she won't even read a book if it's not written in first person.
I write in either, but all my full length stuff is in third. I also prefer to get into the POV of both my main characters, and a secondary or two. But the short story I just sold to Woman's World is written in first. I love doing first person for the really short stuff like that. 800 words is pretty dang short.
Welcome aboard Brynna!
I can't imagine being a teacher and trying to think of all the ways to foster talent and enthusiasm for writing with your students. It's so easy to get discouraged while writing even disappointed with yourself.
I still have those old papers with all the red marks. A few weeks ago I saw my old English teacher. While she aggravated me, pushed me, and generally made my writing life hell in high school, she explains it so easy. "I saw talent." Talent that I've let waste away for years (of course). So then we talked of me writing a book and while I had no intentions of telling her I was working on such a thing, I ended up promising that I'd send her a copy when it was ready to edit.
I have issues with introspection myself in first person. It's easy to get caught up writing exactly how you'd think and the thought process that goes into it. I think a little is good, but I can go on for pages and pages.
I love LK. Kim Harrison is my favorite. Even though your in Rachel's POV the entire time, you are never left wondering what else could be going on. It seems like her style of writing allows you to know everything except for personal thoughts. It's pretty amazing. I aspire to that.
Dear DRD,
So should mystery be in third person or do you think mystery can work in first? Just curious for future reference.
Sincerely,
Evil Twin
Bo'Sun I'm so excited for you that you sold that short to Woman's World! My mom reads that so when I get a chance (or maybe she'll read it tonight when she checks the blog) I'll try to remind her to look for the short!
So tell me a little about it and how did it feel to write in first? Did it feel a little alien for you or did the short just come nature to you?
Dear Evil Twin,
I think mystery can be in either. However, one of the benefits of 1st POV is that if the narrator doesn't know/see/hear something, the reader doesn't either. It's a good way to keep clues hidden (something I suspect YOU know a lot about!)
One of the benefits of doing it in 3rd POV is you can let readers inside other characters' heads, and their thoughts can help plant clues or misdirect and things of that nature.
Very truly yours,
DRD (aka Evil Twin's Twin)
it can be tricky for the MC to figure out what the other characters are thinking/feeling —
But that is exactly what I like Donna. A bit of confusion. A touch of uncertainty. Because that wondering what’s really going on in someone else’s head makes your story feel real.
The stories that I enjoy the most are those that do not blatantly announce THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON. For me, a good book should have a MC (s) who isn’t quite sure what the other characters are thinking/feeling. But they want to.
So just give me clues. Pique my reader’s curiosity… and I will willingly follow your characters on their journey of discovery.
I've written lots of shorts in first person in the last few years. I didn't plan it with this one, just started writing and that's what came out. I like writing that way, just not on really long stuff. I need to get into other character's minds in the longer stuff.
This short was fun to write in that I put my funny voice on completely. The heroine is having a rough morning and then realizes she has someone else's cell phone. Whoever owns it calls her on it from her own phone, and the conversation that follows is pretty funny. It's more than clear she's off her game. LOL!
Turns out, they're on the same train and when it comes time to exchange the phones back, things get interesting. :)
The danger for keeping it in 1st is my tendency toward introspection.
This is what I've found to be true also in my venture into 1st person. I just axed a huge chunk of my heroine's introspection. LOL No regrets actually. I think I needed to do that in order to get into her head and then get it out in smaller chunks or changeover what she thought into more dialogue. Next thing I knew, I had that whole section I knew could go. I guess it wasn't exactly deleting, afterall, but giving me something to move around. LOL
From what I read in exerpts of Twilight (need to read the whole book(s)), it appears to be in first person. There's a great deal of foreshadowing so, I'd think it works great for a mystery.
I'm loving the first person, although still have the plan in my WIP that the heroine's POV is in first while the hero's is in third.
the short story I just sold to Woman’s World is written in first.
Congrats, Terri! I must have missed this announcement. Awesome!
I read a lot of historical romance, and that's mostly (if not all) in 3rd and I enjoy it. I prefer reading in first person. I get excited if a book I want to read is in first person.
I *don't* care for the first person present tense type of writing though. (Sophie Kinsella does that a lot and she's the exception. You better be in past perfect tense, telling me your story.)
I have written in both types: FP and TP, but I think I'm better at first person. I'm not as fond of my third person efforts, which could be part of the reason I'm struggling with the current manuscript, but I don't think the book would work as a first person, so I'm not sure what to do. Other than plod along with what I'm doing.
I think the trick to third person is to be deep enough in their POV that it almost feels like first person. I try to do that, but can't always do it well.
However well meaning your teacher, Sin, she was wrong not to have combined her marking of errors and negative criticism with praise for what you did well. In our workshops for TAs, we always emphasized the importance of praising the good and limiting the negative. I found in my own teaching that just changing from red ink to green ink for marking errors and making comments had a significant effect on how students perceived my responses to their writing.
I find it easier to write in third person,but I think some stories demand a first person pov. The general fiction book I still pull out and work on every now and then is in first person because I wanted the combination of innocence and wisdom that cuts through all the facades adults create to allow themselves to believe they really live their lives according to the principles to which they give lip service. So everything and everyone is seen through the eyes of a twelve-year-old narrator. I struggle with first person, but I do think it best serves the goal of this particular story.
Thanks, Melissa! It just happened last night. LOL!
I can't stand the 1st person present either. I have no idea why, it just bothers me. And I couldn't imagine writing that way unless it's a query or synopsis.
Hellie - You are doing beautifully in TP on the current book. Seriously, I wish you could see what I see.
You sold that short to Woman’s World?!
Yes! Way to go, Terri! I am so very, Very Happy for you!
:)
And welcome aboard, Brynna!
Your students are lucky to have you as their teacher
Congrats again, Terri! I am in awe of your writing a complete story in 800 words. Even my blog posts are that long. LOL!
I'll have all my friends in the hometown primed to buy that September issue of Woman's World so they can read the story written by my friend Terri. Are you using your name or a pseudonym?
And SIN, my answer to your question When reading, do you prefer to read third person or first? is ...
… Vanilla!
So just give me clues. Pique my reader’s curiosity… and I will willingly follow your characters on their journey of discovery.
Julie, this is great -- exactly what I've been working on. I saw a quote today about the ole "show, don't tell" rule. It was "show smoke, and the reader will infer fire". So today I'm off to show smoke!
Terri, congrats again on selling the story! It sounds like you had fun writing it, which means everyone is gonna have fun READING it. :)
Brynna, welcome aboard! Everyone should have teachers like you!
Thanks y'all. Yep, it's under my own name. No pseudonyms for me. LOL!
I like the idea of marking papers in green instead of red. I think I'll do that with my paper edits. :)
Janga said:
I wanted the combination of innocence and wisdom that cuts through all the facades adults create to allow themselves to believe they really live their lives according to the principles to which they give lip service.
I love this. To strip back all their actions and words and run through the filter of a 12 year old girl is genius. Reminds me of AIN'T SHE SWEET when SEP included the POV of the young girl. Seeing the conflict and the characters through her eyes added another dimension to that story.
Julie - Way to go. Vanilla, indeed!
Though, honestly, a first person, vanilla story would be a real challenge!
Wait, what would be hard about writing a 1st person vanilla story?
I lose internet connection (AGAIN!!!!) and the blog dies? Do I have to do everything around here? LOL!
I write in third, but struggle with the antagonist's POV, because I HATE her. Everytime I come to a scene with her, I stutter to a halt.
I love vanilla-exotic, mysterious, with layers and nuances.
Congratulatins, Terri on your sale!!
Di
Thanks, Di!
Do you freeze up when trying to write in the villain's POV or anytime she's even in the scene?
Hey, so sorry guys. I didn't expect to blog today and my schedule reflects it.
I would love to find a comprehensible way to write third person. I think as a writer it would round me out and balance my depth of view. The attempts I've made with third person POV have frustrated me to no end. Does anyone have tricks for writing in third and making it "feel" like third instead of first switched into third?
Does anyone have tricks for writing in third and making it “feel” like third instead of first switched into third?
OMG! That made me dizzy. And I think that my life just flashed before my eyes! Groan.
Chance I hate you.
You're going to make me write it out aren't you?
Groan. Again.
I write internal dialogue for my third person POVs that is like my first person.
Like:
Adam stared at his wife, unable to formulate a response. Clearly she wasn't over the kitchen aid incident, as if that had been his fault. Not that it mattered--where her unhappiness was concerned, everything was his fault.
Which would be like if I were in first person with him:
I stared at her, my brain unable to make my mouth give a response. I hated when that happened; it only goaded her even more snippy remarks about my intelligence. Of which I apparently had none. I couldn't believe we were still fighting about a kitchen appliance. What was I saying? I couldn't believe we still weren't having sex--the woman was the camel of sex. According to Eve, everything was my fault, including and most importantly the reason why she wasn't happy, and all I could think was if we could just have sex I could look into remedying this problem.
Okay I got wordy with the 2nd one. Which is a problem with first person for me. But the first example was sorta good, right?
Hells, the example is great. I am very wordy in first person which is what I might talk about next week.
What Hellie wrote.
I have no idea how to explain anything and there are no tricks in my toybox.
Though, honestly, a first person, vanilla story would be a real challenge!
Why?
I mean vanilla with a capital “V”, Chance. As in The Vanilla of The Ordinary People.
You know what I mean, Chance.
You do. Even if you think that you don’t. You do!
I’m talking about that “plain vanilla” common theme or melody that is the soundtrack for ordinary peoples’ lives. The Vanilla that you find in in folk stories , folk songs , or popular music.
Take that ordinary vanilla … and give it an Extraordinary UNcommon arrangement and you get vanilla with a capital V!
Such as …
The Sabre Dance' by Aram Khachaturian
(influenced by folk music)
Johannes Brahms--Hungarian Dance
(variations of well known Hungarian and gypsy melodies)
Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsodies , which Susan Halpern describes as “free form compositions that assembled and persevered a large number of popular songs and dances.”
Chance? What did she do now ?!
I love when you write out your deviousness. It makes me feel almost normal.
You're Not normal?
WHY am I always the last to know ... mumble ... mumble ...
That's because you're about as normal as I am.
That ain't sayin' much.
You would reference the gypsies.
Julie just gave me flashbacks. I had to play Hungarian Dance when I was in hs band. I was in percussion. It was HARD. LOL!
Melissa (and Brynna), I think there is something to writing all that introspection on our first person characters. You're all alone with this character inside of your head. You know lots of stuff about this character but introspective tends to teach us MORE about our character. Helps us better understand where this character is coming from. Helps us learn about her past, how she deals with problems and conflicts and emotions. And by the time we're ready to delete it from our respective manuscripts, as writers we're ready to let that go from the story since it helped us get to the next point.
Which is why I wrote
"And SIN, my answer to your question When reading, do you prefer to read third person or first? is …
… Vanilla!"
Vanilla , not vanilla.
Terri~
I freeze up when I have to write in her POV. It's gotten to the point where I make notes about what I need her to do in the scene, then move on to characters who I do like (at least most of the time). I know I'll still need to write the actual scene, but at least this way I can keep my momentum.
Di
I am so lost in the comments.
Thanks for the welcome, y'all. I've been a lurker for quite some time! :)
Whooohoooo! Congratulations, Terri! When does the issue with your story come out?
And I agree, Sin. Sometimes even though I know I'm not going to use it, I'll write in first person to dig deep into that introspection to help me over a hump. Now, I just have to learn not to flinch when I write too much and have to cut it. lol.
I'm all over third person. But it can't hop all over. That drives me nuts. Unless it's a really intense scene then I can forgive the head hopping.
I like to know what's going on in people's heads, and I don't think that can be effectively done in first. There is too much room for incorrect assumptions. I don't mind the characters assuming things, but I think it adds an emotional punch to the story when the reader gets to see both sides of the fence, so to speak.
Gotta love those writer discoveries.
Terri, what did I miss? When did you announce it? And yes do tell, which issue?
Congrats Terri - a celebration drink on me at Nationals!
I'm having a very hard time figuring out POV for myself. Meaning which seems to come naturally. 3rd person flows easier for me, but I actually do enjoy "deep third" or really well done 1st person when I'm reading.
Another problem - I'm having that newbie issue of head hopping. I can see it in the first few chapters and yet cannot keep myself from continuing to do it. At this point, I'm telling myself I'll fix it in edits. :)
Ahoy, pirates -- I'm giving up writing. For today. LOL I know what I want to do, but apparently it is beyond my skill set. Sigh.
I think I'm going to see what Kahlua tastes like over the French Vanilla ice cream I bought yesterday.
Then you can just throw me overboard. LOL
Never say die, Donna!
Thanks, Brynna, Renee, and Scape!
Renee - I got the contract in the news in the mail last night and announced it on Facebook. Today I realized now all these people are going to read it and wonder what all the fuss is about. If I ever get a book published, I'm totally going to throw up when it comes out.
The story is called The Cell Phone Switch (unless they change it) and will be in the Sept 16th issue.
Scape - Re:head hopping - It gets easier. You'll figure it out.
Di - That must be a really evil character. But I'm with you on the importance of keeping that momentum going. It's the only thing that works for me.
Wow, what a great way to torture Julie...just disappear on a play day.
Sorry, sweetie. I was off shopping with a friend for the day. I have a new sparkly parrot ring...and a dress...shorts...a shirt...
And I'm sorry, but I'm with Sin...lost me on the music analogy. But then again, I spent the day in a mall after a restless night, so my brain is a bit blundering right now...
Thanks guys for covering the comments today. Di, Janga, Melissa, Renee, it's always wonderful to see you guys. I wish I could've played more.
And I’m sorry, but I’m with Sin…lost me on the music analogy. But then again, I spent the day in a mall after a restless night, so my brain is a bit blundering right now…
Chance, you have such lovely manners!
I love how you put the blame on you, and not on me.
Usually when a situation like this comes up my husband just says …
“Julie, what the hell are you talking about?”
Be patient with me , Chance. And I’ll sit down & decipher if for you. But only because I like you … Then again maybe deciphering it (it being the way my mind works) for you will only make it more confusing?! Which would mean that if I really liked you , then I shouldn’t decode “it” for you. That way you’ll be just kinda confused.
Verses …
Really Confused! LOL
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