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Blog Archive
The Industry Professional's Perspective (Marnee's Favorite Craft Book)
The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman
Noah Lukeman is a literary agent in NYC who represents all kinds of award-winning authors. This book claims, “If you’re tired of rejection, this is the book for you.” But I’d suggest this book even if you just want to be prepared and spruce up your writing the best you can.
We’ve all heard that the first words and pages of our books are vital. Mr. Lukeman’s argument is that an agent/publisher has technically made up their mind by the end of the fifth page about whether they like or dislike a MS. Talk about your important first impressions. He focuses on ways to help us get the reader past those first five pages.
The book is split into three parts: preliminary problems, dialogue, and the bigger picture. The first part, the preliminary problems, deals with manuscript presentation, style, and adjective/adverb usage. The second part claims that if the preliminary problems aren’t present, an agent/publisher will look to dialogue for a foundation to reject. And finally, if you get past the preliminary stuff and dialogue issues, he goes into more intricate craft details – showing not telling, narrative viewpoints, tone, focus, etc.
What is interesting about this book is that it’s written from an industry professional’s perspective. Lukeman’s voice is very much, “this is the checklist I follow on the way to rejection.” This was a huge ah-ha moment for me because it reminded me that an agent/publisher, while hoping to find the next “big thing,” also don’t want to waste their time on the long line of “definitely-not-the-next-big-things.” Ultimately, they read with an eye for the errors they need to reject so they don’t waste their time.
So this book is sort of a roundabout craft book. The focus is more on who will buy the book than on us as the writer. But I find that very useful.
Do you think it’s fair that agents/editors do such snap judgments of MS? Do you stop reading a book if you don’t like it somewhere in the middle? How do you decide if a new author is worth buying in the bookstore? What are some things that writers do that drive you crazy as a reader?
Books by the Crew
44 comments:
I get the five pages... when I was quering I usually included five pages UNLESS the agent specifically states you cannot send anything aside from the query letter.
I have put books down after 5-10 pages of reading and said can't do it. So I see how an agent can decide in a few pages if they like the pacing, the story, the voice.
Tiff, I've heard people say they do this - sending the first five pages. Did you find that the agents were cool with it? I know I've read a few who said that this is annoying and other professionals who say it's a good idea.
I've put down a book after 5-10 pages too. Though I have put down a book after 100 pages too. Especially if it's an author I like usually. I try to give them a chance. But it hasn't stopped me from stopping later. :)
Five pages, huh? As much as we might sometimes want to say "but wait it gets really good in the next chapter..." the response is always "then start the book there", so I can definitely understand the five pages idea. The potential agent or editor is the first completely objective reader that our book will get, and if they aren't sold on the MS in five pages a reader looking to buy the book won't be either.
JK, that is a great way to put it. Picking the right spot to start is difficult. I think that's why I can't pants. I'd write 100 pages before I got to where I "should" start. LOL!!
I get the first five pages thing but then I don't. I know that by learning more about writing and this industry, I have changed my reading habits. I'm much pickier, spot things I'd have never noticed before, and get pulled out of a story easier. My guess is the same goes for the agents, the way they see a book and the way a typical reader would see those same pages is different.
So this is where I'd hope an agent would look for good potential and not so much perfection. From reading agent blogs, I don't think they are all looking for perfection, but this kind of stuff is still daunting.
In other words, I'm torn. LOL! I totally understand that the first page should be as good as page 20 and 200 and 399, but this first five pages thing still feels harsh.
One of the only craft books I've ever bought myself was by this dude. I'd seen Hellie buy it in one of our million trips to the book store and I wouldn't pick it up. Mostly because I don't pay full price for anything. But I got one of his books for a steal. Still haven't read it; but maybe eventually I will.
If I pick up a book in the store, I automatically flip to the middle. If I'm engrossed enough to keep reading, I buy it. I think the first five pages is misrepresentative of a person's ability to hook a reader. I'm a fairly finicky reader. I tend to not like books right off the bat but need about 50 pages to get into it and know the characters. The first five pages are like a one night stand. If you want the relationship to continue, you have to keep going.
Ter - I know! the first five page thing does feel harsh. And maybe you're right; that they have the same thing that we do. Sort of like how when you get a chip in your manicure or a scratch in your car paint or whatever and after it's pointed out you can't help noticing it again and again. :)
I think agents see past some surface flaws. I don't think they expect perfection exactly, just mostly perfection. LOL!!
Sin - Do you have this book or something else he wrote? I don't know what else he wrote, I was just curious.
A one night stand. LOL!! That's a funny way to put it. I kind of agree. I've read some really good books that started out kinda bleh. But they weren't bad enough for me to stop.
I have to go look up the title. I think it's him. *running off to amazon*
I have "The First Five Pages- A Writer's Guide to Staying Out of the Rejection PIle".
and it's by Noah Lukeman.
So for me, the whole first five pages rule isn't always applicable. My first few pages suck donkey balls.
I've read some books that were good in the first 50 pages and after that it was a crapshoot.
Excellent point, Sin! There are those (and I could be in this "those" but I haven't gotten far enough to know yet) who can write an awesome first five pages or first three chapters, but can't keep that level up for the rest of the book. But this is all about getting the request and not the sale. Still.
I didn't used to put books down, but now I do. If I get to about the middle and could care less about the characters, then I give up. That's happened twice in the last year or so and with another book I pushed to finish it because I liked the author. But I didn't care much about the characters when I finished.
That last paragraph sounds a great deal like my sex life. *sigh*
I read this book in the midst of a spate of editing books, and I ended up disliking them all. Probably because they all said the same thing, most of it I already knew and some of it I don't believe.
Especially on adverbs/adjectives. I had an unpubbed contest judge mark every since adverb in my entry as [adverb misuse] because of something she'd read in a book (which she admitted in the comments). Oddly enough, they all modified verbs or adjectives. Was I the only one paying attention in grammar class?
I get that adverbs and adjectives can be used as crutches instead of finding stronger/more appropriate nouns and verbs. But people overgeneralize the rule and take it to mean you can't use adverbs or adjectives. Personally, I have yet to find a verb that means "sighed inwardly" or "nodded slowly."
And don't get me started on faces again ;) .
Oh PS Marn--I got my website all updated. I'm going to pick one of the pages as the front page--I'm debating between the About page and the Projects page.
On second thought "dislike" is strong. "Underwhelmed by" might be more appropriate. All this advice gets less powerful the third time you've read it.
An agent has never said 'how dare you include pages'. And I did get more requests, and when rejects came I felt better knowing they'd at least skimmed the first five pages (and the query) to reject me... not jus the idea of the query. :)
I stick my the send pages unless they say not to. Though I eventually landed my agent with a well rehearsed pitch! You'll recall working on that with me and Kris the night before :)
I have had it both ways.
I have read books where the first five pages were awesome. Great. Brilliant, and then somewhere around the third or fourth chapter I wondered WHY am I reading this? And I abandoned the book. And I will abandon a book. I have no qualms in doing that. Life is too short.
And I have read books where the first five pages weren't the best thing I read, but the middle and ending were so beautiful that it worked out.
I've also read books where it was brilliant from page 1 to page 350, and I admire and resent those authors simultaneously. *LOL*
So I can get where agents/editors reject on the first five pages, but it's not just the first five you have to worry about. I don't think the first five can say everything a reader needs to know about the characters or the storyline, though the first five pages does say everything about an author's voice--and that is ultimately why any reader reads a book. You trust the writer's voice to tell the story and you're engaged. The moment the voice breaks, the spell is broken.
I think ultimately the first five pages says more about voice than anything else; and there is no way to teach that. And it's perfectly subjective. There are a ton of people who love Nora Roberts' voice. Not me though. But she's not the only one whose voice I don't find overly engaging--and it's nothing really about these people in particular. I just perfer more irreverence...more sarcasm...more funny. So I seek out those voices and I can find them.
Funny is a SUBJECTIVE thing, more so than writer's voice. You really have to hope that enough reader "get" you and trust that you can be yourself.
Sin - that's this book! :) It's a good one, really. You should read. :)
Ter - I think I now know more about your sex life than I needed to. LOL!! But I do know exactly what you mean. :)
Jordan says: "I get that adverbs and adjectives can be used as crutches instead of finding stronger/more appropriate nouns and verbs. But people overgeneralize the rule and take it to mean you can’t use adverbs or adjectives. " I think this is exactly right. Personally, if an adjective or adverb is interesting and evocative, or it does what you say, the whole sigh inwardly thing, well, I'm with you. (PS, I never saw anything wrong with your adjective or adverb usage. Obviously that judge was a bit confused. And you're about the best grammatician I know.)
And I love how generous you always are. Underwhelmed, indeed. LOL!!
Marn - Sorry, but I realized the detailed similarities after I wrote it. LOL! Trust me, I'm much more disturbed by it than you are.
Jordan - I think every writer goes through the "rules as a butt plug" stage where all these rules are thrown at you and you can't process them fast enough. I'm much happier having passed through that stage and learned to take what I can use and ignore the rest. :)
Don't even get us started on the contest judge topic. LOL!
I would have missed out on a lot of reading I have enjoyed if I followed the five-page rule, so I don't think it is totally reliable. But published books have already been vetted by a number of people, although I can think of a few that make me doubt the intelligence and taste of the vetters. I do think with manuscripts that experienced agents and editors can recognize bad writing or unmarketable ideas within the first five pages much of the time.
Be honest now. Think back to the fanlit reading days. We all recognized that some entries were already polished jewels, some were uncut gems, others were rough stones with tantalizing sparks suggesting hidden value, and still others were just gravel. Judges, be they agents, editors, or readers, make mistakes sometimes, but they often get it right.
The grammar discussion made me think of a pet peeve concerning the use of the verb "to be" in all its glorious forms. "To be" is an intransitive verb; alone it cannot be passive voice because intransitive verbs DO NOT have voice. Transitive verbs in active voice can be made passive; most of the time (not always), good writers avoid passive voice. Active verbs are stronger. Example: Ignorance irritates me (active voice of transitive verb "to irritate"). I am irritated by ignorance(passive voice of transitive verb "to irritate"). I am weary
(intransitive verb "to be"). While "to be" is often overused, any writer who eliminates it completely is likely to end up with stilted prose that bears little resemblance to natural speech. End of rant. (Janga folds her soapbox once again and, red-caced, steals away.)
Janga, you can rant here anytime you want. I love it when you get stirred up. It's hilarious...and always educational. And you can use all the 'was' and 'to be' you want. Your prose is so beautiful I can't imagine anyone stopping after the first five pages.
Tiff, I do remember your pitch and I do remember your glow after she requested your full. ;)
And I'll keep the five pages thing in mind. Did you attach to your email or did you just include in the email?
Hellie - I am there with you. I absolutely am jealous of those authors who keep me all the way til the end. I'd like the vitamin supplement that does that. :) But you're right. I think this is like everything else; it's more that there can be stuff in the first five pages that get an automatic reject, but I think he means getting past that automatic reject stuff. And you're right about the voice. We just have it or we don't. :)
Janga - what an informative explanation! Thank you for the active passive/ transitive lesson. That was one of the most clear cut way of explaining that that I've read in a while. :)
And of course you had to go to fanlit. Though I know exactly what you mean.
Never EVER attach stuff to an email going to an agent... I put it in the body of the email.
This is all what I will say about querying---and I think you can trust me since I've queried three books---follow the agent's guidelines. Don't only check out the page on Agent Query but go to their agency's website for submission guidelines. If they say query only (and don't indicate whether or not to include the first five pages), do NOT send five pages. I know Tiff and I disagree about this but here is my reasoning: if I were an agent and I get a query with five extra pages (and the query is so-so), it's not going to make me read your work. The key is to write an awesome query---one that nails down your voice and is a very effective pitch. And if you are thinking about sending unrequested five pages to the agent, really look at those five pages and ask yourself: does it end on a hook . . . is this effective . . . does it deliver what the query promises. To me, I always follow the agent's guidelines---the quickest way to get a rejection is to disregard them.
Ugh! that was supposed to be "red-faced," says Janga, who is red-faced again.
Hellion, this teacher can take herself out of the classroom, but she can't take the lecture imperative out of herself. :)
Janga dear, we knew what you meant. LOL!!
Tiff and Ely - Very interesting debate you two have going on here. :) I can see why you'd include - to get your stuff there, just in case they're going to look. But I can see why not as well - maybe they'd be annoyed that you ignored their guidelines. Dunno. I don't think I'm the type to just add them on and disregard (Ely and I are Virgos). But I can see why you might.
Janga—TOTALLY IN AGREEMENT. (I'd say "I am," but my transitivity status is in limbo ;) )
In full disclosure, Marnee . . . there is a specific reason why I didn't include my 5 pp with current book unless asked. I totally think you have to decide what is best for you and do what you want. And Tiff and I don't agree about everything (as shocking as that may seem) but there's plenty of room for differing opinions. :)
I was pretty good in English class, but Janga totally lost me. And if anything in this sentence is in the wrong voice or tense, I apologize now. (I should also apologize for the use of "good" instead of "well".)
You have to remember too Marnee, I had FIVE REALLY STRONG PAGES for Hidden Beauty, hello a lady being sold into slavery, by her stupid husband! I probably would NOT have included five pages from immortal beloved had I queried it... just not as strong.
Ely and I are a perfect compliment to each other :)
Ely, I agree! I think I wouldn't be comfortable sending anything that wasn't requested. I just always like to hear what everyone else's reasoning is. :)
And you two don't always agree? I'm scandalized! LOL!!
Do you mind including what your specific reason is? Or too personal?
Tiff - I can see why you would have sent that along. LOL! I know I've read other places where people suggest it too. :)
Terr—I'm a Linguistics major and an English minor and I can confuse the terms "transitive" and "intransitive." And whether me, my and I are nominative or accusative or . . . yeah. Don't feel bad!
Oh, Terri, my tirade was not directed at you. I have just read so many "experts" in books and online misuse the term "passive voice" that the subject makes me want to scream. I'm sorry!
And your use of "good" is correct. The linking verb "was" should be followed by the adjective "good" rather than the adverb "well." :)
And if anyone needs another lecture, I also have a rabid rant on "between you and I." LOL!
Marnee, it's not too personal. AYW does not start in medias res . . . it has a deceptively slow start until something happens. I like to indoctrinate my readers into the story bit by bit. But hey I must be doing something very right with AYW since people love it. :)
That makes sense, Ely. I see where you're both coming from. :)
And that's great about people loving AYW! I'm so happy for you!! *Fingers crossed*
Janga - I didn't think you were aiming at me, you just lost me. LOL! But to be fair, I haven't conjugated anything in more years than I'm willing to admit. :) And I'm so glad I got the "good" right. LOL!
Jordan - These kinds of convos make me more uncomfortable than just about anything else. We all know the common accepted American English we (some of us anyway) speak isn't necessarily *proper* English and I write like I talk. LOL! I'm certain I'm committing all kinds of transitory and intransitory sins.
Marnee, et. al. . . . You should read this blog:
http://bookendslitagency.blogspot.com/2009/04/query-letters.html
It squicks me out when Jessica always knows exactly what the rest of us are thinking at the exact moment we think it. She does it ALL THE TIME. LOL! I really like her blog. And she seemed cool in person.
Thanks for the link, Ely. Both of her points are great advice, if not fun to hear.
Wow, that was timely. Great minds and all that. (Not that I would lump us in with Jessica Faust, but you know. It's just a saying.... LOL!)
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