Sex
Revisions continue for me. But as I plod my way along, I’ve debated including another sex scene.
That’s right lads and wenches; I’m going to talk about sex today.
I’ve read thousands of novels. I’ve pretty much read about every position, caress, action, etc that a romance novelist feels comfortable including in a book. So, for me, gratuitous sex in books gets skimmed over the same way gratuitous description does.
I may be being harsh, marginalizing some very good gratuitous sex scenes. I’m certain there are plenty of sex scenes out there that were nearly superfluous but I trudged my way through, you know, for the continuity of the book, of course.
But I’m speaking on the whole here.
In that way, I think if I'm to avoid having the sex scenes I write get skimmed, these scenes need to “do” something for the plot, just like every other scene in my story.
I’ve come to a point where an emotional change occurs between my characters and I think the best way to make that change is during a sex scene. My hero pulls away from my heroine, but currently my story doesn’t show him doing it and I was thinking the best way to show that would be for him to pull away from her in those moments that humans feel the most vulnerable: while in the arms of someone they care for greatly.
How about you? What do you think makes a good sex scene and what makes you skim? Do you ever skim or is it just me? What do you like the best about sex scenes? What kind of sex scenes do you have in your story?
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45 comments:
What do you think makes a good sex scene and what makes you skim?
Emotion--skimming from lack of emotion, or same old same old.
Do you ever skim or is it just me?
Some authors use the same sex scene (different character names) in most of their books. I skim those authors sex scenes.
What do you like the best about sex scenes?
The rawness, the vulnerability
What kind of sex scenes do you have in your story?
Oh so many! All my sex scenes reveal something about my characters, show some new notch in the emotional journey they must go through to reach their HEA. Human beings, by nature, are sexual beings. What better way to make the relationship journey than through the rawest form we can open ourselves up to our partners?
Great post, Marnee.
And that was skimming HAPPENS WHEN there is a lack ...
Need more coffee...
I don't think I've ever skimmed a sex scene. But then I'm not a skimmer by nature. The only sex scenes I've written were in my Erotic Romance short story and that sort of requires sex from beginning to end. I wasn't sure how to jump into so I just sat down and started writing. I've gotten some good reviews on how it turned out. (Thank you, Kelly!!!)
ITA that the sex has to be there for a reason, but where some say it has to move the story along or move the relationship along, I think it can also show a lack of movement. There's a difference between having sex and making love and I think you can show a character holding back, refusing to let it be more than just sex, by writing sex that holds back. It's almost a way of showing no movement forward.
That's where you can really make that scene when it turns into making love *really* good. I love those kinds of scenes. *g*
Great blog, Marn. And sex really is one of the times when people are the most vulnerable. Gives great opportunities for serious gut wrenching stuff.
I should really read these things back before hitting submit. I was totally talking in circles there. LOL!
*getting more coffee with Tiff*
Get me some coffee too. I can't even think about sex yet. But Tiffany does it best (surprise, surprise). Oddly enough, her sex scenes aren't even about the sex. They would be just as raw and just as potent with no sex, because they are about emotion and character development. And I think that's exactly what a sex scene should be. If you took out all of the "sex" part, what would you have? If it's nothing, if all your H/H were doing was gyrating and thrusting and whatever, then you're doing it wrong. *g*
I don't drink coffee, just tea, but I skim sex scenes too, especially when the kissing goes on for pages. I mean, come on. Just do it already. I'd rather have the emotion or revelatory talk than tab A fitting into slot B against the library wall (ouch). I know we're all getting desperate when we try to vary the venue from the traditional bed. Carriages, haystacks, desks, etc. Read 'em all and have written a few myself. Even erotica is boring to me. Must find something more stimulating than tea. *g*
Good morning Vixens and Ter! :)
And I'm sipping my coffee too. I think we all need our stimulating (pun intended) beverages to talk about this. :)
Tiff - Lack of emotion has to be the biggest thing I skim for. If I don't feel like they really want to be there, I'm lost on it and I move on. And I agree about things appearing more raw when revealed during sex scenes. There's not a lot of hiding a character can do during sex. JK's right too -- you are a master of the sex scene. :)
Ter - I think some of my favorite sex scenes are those that show a lack of movement. Nothing tells you more about relationship troubles than bad sex. LOL!!
JK said: "If it’s nothing, if all your H/H were doing was gyrating and thrusting and whatever, then you’re doing it wrong. *g*" LOL!! This cracked me up but it's sooo true. And the part you said about the scene not even being about sex because I think that's the best way. Sex should just be the vehicle used, not that main point.
Maggie - I think you've expressed my sentiment exactly. People are trying to get fancy with it but most of the time, unless it's got some substance, I'm left cold. Most of the time I don't even remember them at all. And yes to the emotion over the logistics of slot A and B, though I am a sucker for a sex scene with emotion and the logistics.
*g*
I think that Terri hit the G spot when she said it should be about making love. Love being the key word for a good romance.
I have read some authors where the plot is just an excuse for sex. I guess with a massive teenage market, all with hormones approaching the boil, this sort of thing sells, so it satisfies a need. But us more mature (sounds better than older!) types need far more than that. For me Lisa Kleypas does 'love' really well, for example in 'Worth any Price'. Loving sex involves the characters trusting their souls and innermost beings to each other and exploits an extremely expressive language of touch, whisper, scent, smile and that exquisite sensual exchange known only to people deeply in love.
Perhaps you need to experience it to write really well about it!
I haven't completed the first love scene in my own work yet. Have several drafts but none approaches the perfection that I seek. I reckon Janga may be the one to give best advice, in the mean time I'll carry on practising. 8)
Oh, Q brings up a good point. Do you think you can write a really good sex scene if you've never experienced really good sex?
Q- that is my favorite Lisa Kleypas book.
Nothing like a good dose of sex early in the morning for a pick-me-up. And notice I didn't say anything about the wall either.
If it's a new author I'm reading, I will read the sex scenes, but usually I'm an overall book skimmer. I read books over and over again but drawn out boring sex scenes that I've read before, I don't read again. I have a good imagination, I don't need every minute detail in my brain for the rest of the day.
I think I'm better at the sex than the lead in emotionally. There's a lot of emotion that goes into my sex scenes and between the characters but it feels really forced for me. I'm comfortable writing sex scenes and it doesn't bother me for people to read them, but they all seem the same no matter what happens or where they are.
Sin, It is good isn't it!
As an expert in these matters can you tell me what position has been taken in Marnee's pic. I checked my Kama Sutra and nothing seems to fit *wg*
Ahhh... I think I'm blushing. Thanks Kris and Marn. I love writing really intense love scenes :)
I skip a sex scene if it is obvious filler. A sex scene Must be relevant to the story. Other wise it risks becoming gratuitous sex. Bordering precariously on the edge of the ‘P’ word category.
Honestly, I like sex… in stories… but I Don’t have to have it All the time. In fact I don’t Have to have any sex at all (again, I’m referring to stories here!) YES… even in a Romance novel. ALL I really Want is A Good story. Period.
I tried not using the word “gratuitous”. Cuz My Dad uses that word all the time. And really, I hate sounding like my father. But gosh, does a meaning get any better than this?
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) —Synonyms 2. unnecessary, superfluous, redundant; causeless, unreasonable, groundless, unprovoked, unjustified.
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
“Not called for by the circumstances; without reason, cause, or proof; adopted or asserted without any good ground; as, a gratuitous assumption.”
The only Other word I could come up with was screw.
As in
“Don’t Screw around with your story!”
Your idea for a new love scene sounds great, Marn!
And I, too, have been guilty of skimming. Some authors write boring sex and some do that slot A and tab B thing that J.K. described.
When I write sex-which I've done very little of- I try to accomplish something more than the obvious. But I can't say that I succeed since I've never let anyone read them!*g*
I can say, though, that Terri is the queen of the sex scene. I haven't read any sex scenes so good in a really long time.
Kelly - Thanks! *blushing*
Julie - I have to be honest and say I have to a sex in the books I read. I can't imagine reading one that has no sex at all. And I must not be reading what everyone else is reading (though that's no surprise!) since I can't think of a book where the sex scene was slot A tab B or just really boring.
Q- I do believe they might be doing the eskimo tangle. Variation of the wicked snake spoon.
Can't believe you just called me out on the blog with the Kama Sutra. These pirates are never gonna believe that I really am an innocent with just a hyper-active imagination.
*wg*
*eyelashes fluttering*
Q - Love scenes vs Sex scenes.... I think this defines my read vs skim ratio as well. And I do believe the folks in my pic are contortionists. It's the only explanation. LOL!!
Ter - I think we write fantasy fiction. That means we have good imaginations, doesn't it? LOL!!
Sin - I've read a few of your scenes and I think you do emotion well. You're definitely cutting yourself short. I'm sure everyone on this blog who's read your stuff would agree, even if they haven't read your sex scenes.
Tiff - well deserved praise, girl.
Kel - thanks! I've read Ter's scenes too and I agree; she does them well!! :)
Julie - Don't Screw around with your story! LOL!! When sex distracts from the story I get lost too. I would say I'd be okay without the sex too, as long as the emotion and tension/conflict were there.
Sin - Thanks for clarifying our positioning. I'm sure everyone else was thinking that too. *cough cough*
*curtsy* Glad to be of service, dear.
LOL
I read a scene recently that is a classic example of the scenes I skim. I had not read this particular author in a long while, so I read scene #1 to see if I had been unfair to her, I had not. The scene was predictably choreographed: lips to breasts to clit to penetration to earthshaking climax--all this despite the heroine's total lack of experience. I do find such scenes boring. They make me long for traditional Regencies rich in sexual tension with details left to the reader's imagination, which in most cases would be superior to my "particular author."
There are writers whose love scenes I do not skim because the scenes reveal significant things about the characters and their relationships. I agree with Q's evaluation of Lisa Kleypas, and there are lots of other writers(at all different levels of sensuality) who write wonderful love scenes. Elizabeth Hoyt's love scenes are steamy, but they are never mere choreography. I love the humor of Eloisa James's love scenes and the fact that her characters understand that however passionate the love, good sex is a learned skill. Loretta Chase and Mary Jo Putney are not names that one immediately thinks of as creators of great sex scenes, but Lord of Scoundrels and Shattered Rainbows contain superlative examples. Julia Quinn (When He Was Wicked), Pat Gaffney (Wild at Heart), Nora Roberts (Sea Swept), Jennifer Crusie (Welcome to Temptation) are other authors who have written scenes that I go back and reread as a writer studying her craft.
And I still have Tiff's advice on my first love scene on my computer desk; it was good advice, even though she and I are poles apart in the sensuality ratings of our work. :)
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone... everyone is flattering me today :)
Thanks, Janga. Wish I could remember what I said... :)
You know, it's always the quiet ones who bring up the raciest topics. (I am now tempted to post Ode to the Cock for tomorrow's blog, just so we can keep up the themes for the week. I do love themes.)
I do skim if it's a poorly written scene. The last one I remember skimming was in a book in which I did not believe the characters. Well, I didn't believe they were attracted to each other. V.C. Andrews' Flowers in the Attic Brother and Sister couple had more chemistry than this couple.
I do think Making Love is different than having sex...and I'm with the others who say, "It's not even about the sex." Too true.
I'm not sure I agree you have to had great sex to write a great love scene. It probably helps though, to some degree. *grins* Easier to empathize if you're anywhere near in the same ball park, if you will. Otherwise, it's probably the blind leading the blind. (And considering some of my first sex scenes, one of which I found last night, VERY MUCH the Blind leading the Blind.) But like most sex, the more you do it, the better you get and more of a groove you get, so I think.
And yes, lots of authors write the same scene...how many of us have sex the same way? You like what you like; and you write what you know. If it gets you there, why screw with it?
I do like Eloisa James' sex scenes. Mainly because they're all different, yet all the same. I mean, she's got this thing about having them occur outside a lot...and there's really not a lot of perfect sex (Lisa Kleypas has got the perfect, hot, emotional sex down to an artform)--but Eloisa's scenes are more...Everyman. I really can relate more to those--they feel more real. And it's still fun, wonderful, great sex.
Though if Hardy ever walks through my door, I definitely wouldn't turn him down.
Hardy. *sigh*
For the record, I didn't mean to imply the answer to my question was yes. I was just putting it out there. I've met some romance authors who are still carrying their "V" card and they write love scenes with no problem. I just like playing devil's advocate. *g*
There are Elizabeth Lowell books that I love and what I remember about them is the tension, not the actual sex scenes. I mean, those are great, but that woman creates sexual tension that sizzles off every single page. I often expect the book to start smoking.
Janga - I love the sexual tension of traditional Regencies as well. I try to write scenes where my h/h are hyperaware of each other because those are the kind of romances I like, where the characters are swept away.
Hellion - Maybe I am the quiet one but that doesn't mean I don't belong with the rest of the pirates. LOL!!! :)
I agree about EJ's Everyman sex scenes. I like when characters laugh or crack jokes during sex or when things aren't exactly perfect, but still end up being perfect because of the chemistry between them. It does feel more real to me too.
Ter - I'm sure that having experienced what you write about can't hurt, that's for sure. LOL! And EL does write smokey stuff.
Marn - the funny thing is no one expects authors who write about serial killers to have killed someone. Or you can write about an FBI investigation without being a federal agent. For some reason, we equate sex with experience in the author.
I forgot to say I too love EJ's sex scenes. The first one in Desperate Duchesses is one I clearly remember. And she does love those outside locals. The boat was good, but I thought under the tree was truly inspired. LOL!
Tiff, this is what you said:
"Put yourself in Dori's shoes...and walk through the scene in your head...something I always do and think of EVERY DETAIL (surroundings, textures, temperature, feelings, emotions, changing emotions, smell, the mood)
I think when characters that love each other, and a monumental sex moment like this one is about to happen, every sensation needs to be brought out (it's not so much about the penetration)."
Great advice, Tiff! That is good stuff!! (And again, it's not so much about the sex as the other stuff. *LOL*)
Marn, you definitely belong with the pirates. *LOL* You know, I think Black Bart was a teetotaler...and didn't let his men gamble. As I said, it's the quiet ones you gotta watch for...
Ter - You're right of course. Another annoying stereotype/prejudice against the romance industry (if you ask me). The people who criticize romance novels generally think that the women who write them or read them believe that they're reading fact instead of fiction. Romance novels are like any other fantasy novel. And if I am reading about other planets, serial killers, or FBI agents in far away places doing dangerous things, I'm suspending believe the same way I suspend believe when I read a sex scene.
*Marnee, climbing off her soapbox*
Of course that isn't to say I wouldn't like to (as Tiff so wonderfully told Janga) - put myself in a characters shoes now and again.
Fun blog, Marnee!
I'm with everyone else - I've been skimming more and more lately. If there is no emotion I don't want to read about bodies writhing. I also totally agree with your statement about the funny or unexpected moments in sex. Sex isn't always perfect and when you highlight the imperfections it makes it more real and easier to relate to. I love humor in my sex scenes and dialogue (before and after). It's funny how (especially in historicals) talking about it was worse than actually doing it. It's great at showing awkwardness and vulnerability between the characters.
Great blog Marn! I've noticed a trend in the books I've read recently. The first sex scene is great, with tons of tension emotion leading up to it. Then the rest of the sex scenes between those same characters I just skim, because there's no longer the same depth of emotion. So I'm loving this advice to reveal something new about characters through each sex scene, not just the all-important first one.
Irish - I love humor in my sex scenes too. LOL! It's an awkward, vulnerable time; what better for laughing. LOL!!
Hal - I think you're right. I have been feeling lately like some authors use the tension for the first one, but then the rest just fall flat, like they can't keep it going. Wonder why that is?
The two trends I've noticed lately, in both Historical and Contemp, are bondage (minor - nothing Erotica), and the hero is ALWAYS a facegod. I'm not complaining on either account, just making an observation.
I have read a lot of bondage stuff lately. Hmmmm.... People trying to push the envelope, I guess?
Terr...yeah, don't complain about facegods. That's like biting the tongue that eats you, or something...I'm getting my cliches jumbled, I believe. Oops.
LMAO!!
Tiff does write and give the best sex scene advice.
I love, love, love EJ, LK, and NR when it comes to sex scene writing. Another good one is Jennifer Crusie. The sex scenes in Welcome to Temptation and Bet Me are steaming hot.
I think JR Ward does great sex scenes too. Very smokin' hot, pushing the envelope, which I love. Susan Johnson is another author who can steam up a book both in her historical and contemps.
If you go back a ways, Nan Ryan has some killer sex scenes. There's one where the hero carries a necklace to the heroine (or was he boffing someone else? Hmmm...can't remember) and he didn't use his hands. Then there's the one with the mahogany headboard. Oh yeah, good times.
Ter, if it was Nan Ryan he was probably boffing somebody else. But it's still good times.
Ely - I haven't read any of those and Sin - I haven't read JR Ward yet either. I seriously have to catch up with my reading.
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