tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post6939507734579686092..comments2023-05-24T08:06:43.882-04:00Comments on Romance Writer's Revenge: Of Flaws and ValuesTerri Osburnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-77887954688131163082011-05-19T13:12:23.000-04:002011-05-19T13:12:23.000-04:00See! I like that! Same flaw, just the other side o...See! I like that! Same flaw, just the other side of the coin. That would be a nice juicy conflict to bite into.2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-25848374421918710402011-05-19T13:23:34.000-04:002011-05-19T13:23:34.000-04:00Do you think this is your problem too? Do you thin...<i>Do you think this is your problem too? Do you think that your heroine is ruled by some sort of emotional response to something?</i><br><br>Oh, yeah. I can totally see that. The truth is, I have a hard time relating to a lot of women. And while my husband will argue that I've got some big emotional triggers, for the most part I don't let emotions make my decisions.<br><br>So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Definitely something to think about! :)P. Kirbyhttp://www.patriciakirby.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-17966166306649764742011-05-18T20:46:10.000-04:002011-05-18T20:46:10.000-04:00As this has happened a few times this month, I too...<i>As this has happened a few times this month, I took a deep breath and conceded that I would look again. DH, having fixed my problem in male fashion, went back to his dinner, content.</i><br><br>Hee, hee.<br><br>You write men so well!<br><br>Inner flaw... Daniel core value. To protect his son, period. Daniel, inner flaw. Judgemental. <br><br>Janey, core value...loyalty. Inner flaw...doesn't think she's good enough.2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-71213952930795022832011-05-18T23:43:45.000-04:002011-05-18T23:43:45.000-04:00Very Pirandellian Marne!Google reveals a number of...Very Pirandellian Marne!<br><br>Google reveals a number of artistic endeavors entitled '* authors in search of a character', inspired by Pirandello's masterful '6 characters in search of an author'<br><br>But yours is the best by far! *grin*<br><br>You have got me thinking about myself now. If I am to be an RL hero, what is my flaw and core value?<br><br>Hmm. Can't think of any flaws.<br>Perhaps that's a flaw in itself. <br>I'll have to ask Mrs Q later. :lol:<br><br>Or maybe I'm just not suited to be a Hero after all! :cry:Quantumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-16814354147245819772011-05-19T03:21:58.000-04:002011-05-19T03:21:58.000-04:00Oh what a fun exercise!Okay, let's see. My her...Oh what a fun exercise!<br><br>Okay, let's see. My heroine's core value is family, I think. Family sticks by each other, no matter what. She was really close to her father, who she lost as a teen, and then her husband, who she lost as a young mother. So she knows the value of family, knows how quickly they can be lost, and therefore holds them as close as possible. And her flaw is that she's scared it's *her.* That people leave because she's not worthy of being in their life. <br><br>Holy crap! What a breakthrough! And really, this is what drives the entire plot. She's told her husband was dirty, and was killed. She sets out to prove that he was framed and died innocently. She does it to make sure her daughter doesn't grow up thinking her father is a traitor, and to be loyal to him, but she's really just terrified to admit that another person she loved left her. <br><br>Hmmm. Maybe dad needs to leave instead of dying....or that might be too obvious....<br><br>Marn, excellent blog! I realize this doesn't sound like a breakthrough to anyone else, but I'm like all jazzed up and doing the happy dance here. this is the kind of big-picture stuff I'd been struggling with, that is suddenly making sense. Woo hoo!<br><br>p.s. - George cracks me up :)Halnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-36754351699500045112011-05-19T03:32:16.000-04:002011-05-19T03:32:16.000-04:00Chance - LOL! Men are so much fun to write. I pe...Chance - LOL! Men are so much fun to write. I personally thought my desire to vent at the dinner table without expectation that he'd fix things for me was classically female too. LOL!! <br><br>Great core values, Chance. <br><br>One of the things I'm wrestling with is the scenes that come from these things. Are there any scenes that you've devised or any events in the story that come from these characteristics? <br><br>Q - I refrain from pointing out anyone else's flaws as I would hate for someone to point out mine. :) But I would advise to listen to Mrs. Q. <br><br>And I KNOW that you're suited for hero work. You manage hold your own with a bunch of lady writing pirates. A better hero I haven't seen.Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-17825997404197670102011-05-19T03:45:11.000-04:002011-05-19T03:45:11.000-04:00Hal - I'm glad you had a breakthrough!! :) A...Hal - I'm glad you had a breakthrough!! :) And I don't think that because it's an "obvious" thing that it makes a character simple. There's a LOT of stuff--complex stuff--that comes out of simple things. Being abandoned as a child is that sort of traumatic event that can create complex problems. It's not simple. It's a simple act but it doesn't create simplicity.<br><br>You'd like this class. Really.<br><br>And George cracks me up too. He's the best.Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-63676760809728764152011-05-19T05:19:24.000-04:002011-05-19T05:19:24.000-04:00Marn, this is really intriguing. I find it easier ...Marn, this is really intriguing. I find it easier to discover this stuff as I'm pantsing along, and then when I go back to revise, with my Excel spreadsheet, I analyze each scene and figure even more of this out.<br><br>My head is hurting and the coffee isn't doing the trick, but when it does I'll be back with some answers. :)<br><br>Thanks for sharing this from your class. We've all gotten to benefit from it!Donnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-81785616630413478812011-05-19T05:59:48.000-04:002011-05-19T05:59:48.000-04:00Q - Whatever you do, DO NOT ask Mrs. Q that questi...Q - Whatever you do, DO NOT ask Mrs. Q that question. A pandora's box you do not want to open, my friend. Not that you aren't perfect, just don't ask. <br><br>I have this stuff for my characters already and would love to say it's because I'm just that good. But I'd be lying. Dee (Dee S. Knight) gave me this awesome character worksheet a while back and these two questions are included. So much conflict comes from answering these two seemingly simple questions.<br><br>Heroine - Beth<br>Flaw - people pleaser which has resulted in having no back bone. Her parents were not good people so raised by her grandparents always hearing "Don't be like your mother." She's spent her life trying to make up for the daughter her grandparents didn't get.<br><br>Core Value - Kindness and always doing what's right. She became a lawyer because that's what her grandparents wanted, not what she wanted. But the opportunity to use her job for good makes it easier to go to work each day.<br><br>Hero - Joe<br>Flaw - Bitter and negative. He's totally Eeyore. :) And quick to think the worst of people, including his own little brother.<br><br>Core Value - Home is what matters. The island, the water, and his way of life are most important to him and anything to protect them.Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-43465530394435804702011-05-19T06:01:15.000-04:002011-05-19T06:01:15.000-04:00That should be "...and HE'LL DO anything ...That should be "...and HE'LL DO anything to protect them." Brain skipping around today.Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-34320335112564031042011-05-19T06:02:48.000-04:002011-05-19T06:02:48.000-04:00Marn, I will be sure to take Carol's class lat...Marn, I will be sure to take Carol's class later this year. I know it's being offered in August and it sounds amazing! And I completely cracked up at your story because that's the nervous breakdown I have--every five minutes--but I don't have Mr. Fix-It nearby to say, "Are you sure? Maybe you should look again?" Bad for the digestion. *BRUHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA*<br><br>Core Value and Inner Flaw.<br><br>I will have to think. I know both of my characters have them--but as you so expertly revealed, these come from the backstory of your characters, so I need to think about Adam and Eve's backstory for a bit to identify them. I'll be back. (No that wasn't a reference to Arnold.)Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-73633944984740732352011-05-19T06:08:14.000-04:002011-05-19T06:08:14.000-04:00Donna - Carol actually talks about pantsing. I do...Donna - Carol actually talks about pantsing. I do think the way she approaches this class would be beneficial to pantsers during the revision phase. It talks about the big picture things. Too often I feel like writers get bogged down in the micro aspects of writing (how one particular phrase sounds, one scene, etc) but she spent the first few lessons laying out the big story elements. Very beneficial, especially since she applied them directly to the romance genre, which is something I rarely find in craft books.<br><br>Bo'sun - I can't wait to see how you pair these characters up. Joe sounds interesting. I love heroes who have a strong sense of home. <br><br>Any scene ideas where they face these things? (I'm really trying to get a handle on ways this is applied. I have some ideas for mine but I really think this hasn't crystallized for me yet.)<br><br>And go Dee. That works sheet sounds really useful.Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-20994806227148742592011-05-19T06:17:21.001-04:002011-05-19T06:17:21.001-04:00I have a few scenes, Marn. From the get go they...I have a few scenes, Marn. From the get go they're bouncing off each other. Once scene in particular, he gets tired of her starting every sentence with "Lucas says..." or "Lucas wants..." Lucas is his brother and her fiance. He pushes her with, "Don't you ever think for yourself?" He basically forces her to find her back bone.<br><br>There will have to be another scene (or more than one) where she stands up to him and points out being unkind to people just because you're a bitter is not acceptible. And she might call him a spoiled little boy for clinging to his toys and refusing to grow up. <br><br>Heh. I hadn't thought of that one until just now, but I like it.Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-28167368970212275582011-05-19T06:17:21.000-04:002011-05-19T06:17:21.000-04:00Oh, and I can send you the worksheet. I love it, g...Oh, and I can send you the worksheet. I love it, gets a ton of backstory down. Stuff like who was their childhood best friend and their favorite color. But then you get these big aspects as well, with greatest fear thrown in.Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-62750567810150697002011-05-19T06:20:03.000-04:002011-05-19T06:20:03.000-04:00Bo'sun - Is okay, I'm blaming the weather ...Bo'sun - Is okay, I'm blaming the weather for my brain malfunctions today.<br><br>Hells - DH is incredibly patient with me. In fact, most of the time now, just seeing him reminds me that I'm probably overreacting. I'm like Pavlov's dogs; he's reassured me so many times that he's become his own calming affect. I recommend finding someone like this--doesn't have to be a spouse, I'd imagine, but that works for me--for every writer. The stuff that goes on in my head can make me feel so crazy. But he's so steady he grounds me without saying anything sometimes. :) (Big XOXOXs for George today, love you hun if you're reading).<br><br>I hadn't really thought consciously about the importance of backstory but you're right. And coming up with backstory for Adam and Eve does sound tricky. I can't wait to hear what you do.Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-83536260653506120272011-05-19T06:22:07.000-04:002011-05-19T06:22:07.000-04:00Bo'sun - please do. :) And I like your scene...Bo'sun - please do. :) And I like your scenes. Hmmm.... The way you did that might give me some ideas here. *off to look at my storyboard*Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-23643028520656334802011-05-19T06:26:51.000-04:002011-05-19T06:26:51.000-04:00I don't have it in my work computer, so I'...I don't have it in my work computer, so I'll send it when I get home tonight. Remind me if you don't see it by 10p.<br><br>My heroine also has an intense fear of water and boats (stemming from an episode in her childhood) so having her hero be a charter boat captain helped with the conflict. Oddly enough, this story was well underway in my head before I realized she has this fear. I'm happy she revealed this tidbit so early. :)Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-71057854767627431902011-05-19T06:32:54.000-04:002011-05-19T06:32:54.000-04:00I like when characters are so accommodating. :)I like when characters are so accommodating. :)Marneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-73139392937837129942011-05-19T06:54:09.000-04:002011-05-19T06:54:09.000-04:00Q – Whatever you do, DO NOT ask Mrs. Q that questi...<i>Q – Whatever you do, DO NOT ask Mrs. Q that question. A pandora’s box you do not want to open, my friend. Not that you aren’t perfect, just don’t ask. </i><br><br>*LOL* No kidding.Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-70914921785860504162011-05-19T07:00:42.000-04:002011-05-19T07:00:42.000-04:00Marn- If she had waited until we were halfway thro...Marn- If she had waited until we were halfway through this draft, we would have had words. And not the good kind.Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-3231104498351644462011-05-19T08:00:01.000-04:002011-05-19T08:00:01.000-04:00I've been working on this damn story for two y...I've been working on this damn story for two years, and the heroine just now let on she has a fear of abandonment. I'd be pissed if I weren't so excited about this little tidbit pulling the whole story together :)Halnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-25854547293311935212011-05-19T08:11:48.001-04:002011-05-19T08:11:48.001-04:00Okay, I don't know if I did this right or if t...Okay, I don't know if I did this right or if these are the right answers, but they're the best I've got right now.<br><br><br>Adam: he’s a staunch traditionalist. Everyone has roles and their proper place, things they are born for and best at. Not exactly embracing of change or modernization (except where technology is concerned). Probably a lead believer in the caste system. *LOL*<br><br>Inner Flaw -- Inflexible. Unwilling to adapt to evolution of relationships, et al. Fear of change.<br><br>Core Value – “If it wasn’t broke, why fix it?” (Refuses to see anything as broke though until it’s too late.) Stop meddling with something until it is broke—or as the doctor says, “Don’t poke it.” Be happy with what you have now. <br><br><br><br>Eve: a big thinker/analyzer, evolver, yogi. Nurturer, caretaker who has now come realize being a caretaker means she needs to take care of herself first. <br><br>Inner Flaw – Passive-Aggressive. Let’s things build up until it explodes and difficult to fix. Determined to handle everything (control freak), neurotic and stressed when it all goes awry. Now the yoga deals with her stress and has given her new ways to deal with stuff, but her newfound passion for her new way of life has become an all or nothing for everyone. No compromise. (That seems ironic—a passive aggressive yogi?)<br><br>Core Value – Oprah. “How can I be the best ME?” What do I need to do or change to be happy?<br><br><br>Their happiness beliefs are in conflict. He has low or no expectations (other than for things to remain the same, stable); she has higher expectations, she now wants more than she’s been getting. He wonders why she’s unhappy now after all this time; she wonders why he can’t pony up already, if it means that much to him, which clearly she doesn’t since he’s unwilling.Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-79046407572721438572011-05-19T08:11:48.000-04:002011-05-19T08:11:48.000-04:00But you already said that, Hal, just not using the...But you already said that, Hal, just not using the word "abandonment". Her whold hang up is based around people leaving her and that's really the definition of being abandoned. You gots this. LOL!Bosunhttp://www.romancewritersrevenge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-40382067854675203672011-05-19T08:19:16.000-04:002011-05-19T08:19:16.000-04:00lol Ter. You're so right. It's all there, ...lol Ter. You're so right. It's all there, just not in a way that I saw how it informed the entire big picture. It's suddenly less muddled and more cohesive in my mind now. It's a beautiful thing :)Halnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-27968207920540722072011-05-19T08:22:47.000-04:002011-05-19T08:22:47.000-04:00Hal - I agree with Ter. I think it's there an...Hal - I agree with Ter. I think it's there and you just didn't define it. <br><br>That's one of the things I've completely taken from this class. I do things but because I don't do them consciously, I miss that bit of POW that comes when things are done deliberately. Because realizing they should be there, I can hone it to a razor's edge. It's the difference between killing someone with a club and killing them with a sword. Both can get the job done, for sure. But the club is messier, requires more effort in the long run--probably--and lacks subtlety. A sword has flare, is clean and swift, elegant. And it can find that place that causes the most damage, smooth and sure.Marneenoreply@blogger.com