tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post6612519142049500202..comments2023-05-24T08:06:43.882-04:00Comments on Romance Writer's Revenge: Playing FavoritesTerri Osburnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-80387104709617206772011-10-14T04:15:28.000-04:002011-10-14T04:15:28.000-04:00My hero is the favorite. He's the protagonist...My hero is the favorite. He's the protagonist in my story. I didn't intend that either. I expected it to be my heroine. She's making a journey from being a courtesan to a more traditional life. But my hero? He's the main journey. Because he's got to put a whole lot of insecurity behind him. He's the one who has to make the really big choices.<br><br>I don't think it's that I played favorites. I prefer to see it as Carol Hughes explained in her workshop. That one character is the protagonist and the other is the contagonist. That the protagonist's choices propel the story, and that the contagonist's goals are working in contrast to the protagonist's.Marnee Baileyhttp://marneebailey.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-8667351570953079432011-10-14T04:21:31.000-04:002011-10-14T04:21:31.000-04:00Intriguing post, Chance. I think I play favorites ...Intriguing post, Chance. I think I play favorites too, but now I can see why, since the journey is different for the characters. Which means it may be more relatable to me than the other character's journey.<br><br>I think my hero is my favorite at the moment. Maybe. I'm working on a couple things right now, so I have to think. When I'm writing in 1st POV, it's whoever that POV character is, but in 3rd POV -- yes, I think the hero is my favorite right now. :)Donnahttp://www.AllAboutTheWriting.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-91084751690891244612011-10-14T04:43:17.000-04:002011-10-14T04:43:17.000-04:00I started my current MS as the heroine's story...I started my current MS as the heroine's story. She's the one who came to me first, she has the most interesting story. Then I got to writing and got sucked in by my hero. He's a pretty cool hero, and he and a secondary character have a history that fascinates me.<br><br>It took me a long time to admit that I *needed* to go back to the first way, where Naomi is the protagonist, and it's Naomi's story. The hero is major, he has his own arc and his own things to deal with, but it's still Naomi's story. Giving the book that structure helped me clarify what was necessary, what was unnecessary, and what scenes I need to add in (a lot!)<br><br>For me, figuring out who my protagonist (or favorite!) was meant boiling down the story to one question. When i really, really boiled it down, I was left with: "Will Naomi regain what she sacrificed?" I finally put that on a post-it note on my computer to help me keep focused :)halnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-37199744689419071012011-10-14T05:39:19.001-04:002011-10-14T05:39:19.001-04:00I need to make time to take that Carol Hughes clas...I need to make time to take that Carol Hughes class. <br><br>I believe the "playing favorites" does happen and the story usually belongs to one or the other, but I'm not sure which way I went in the current WIP. The more I think about it, the more I'd say the story belongs to my heroine. <br><br>Joe has some lessons to learn, but he learns them long before the end. Beth's lessons are harder. She has to overcome a way of thinking that has been engrained in her since childhood. Takes longer for her to come round. So yeah, the book belongs to Beth.Bosunhttp://www.terriosburn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-53781420689653983812011-10-14T05:39:19.000-04:002011-10-14T05:39:19.000-04:00I've always said authors give the story to one...I've always said authors give the story to one character or the other more--and it's not always the heroine as is expected in a romance. One character simply has the bigger (or better) character arc, and it ends up being his/her story. <br><br>Of course, no one believes me. <br><br>But then Debra Dixon says it....<br><br>I have a pattern. I usually make my hero's have the bigger arc, or the more interesting arc. I am more interested in their growth than I am the heroine's. It's really sexist of me. But with Redemption, Lucifer was definitely the owner of the story; in GOGU, it was Ben (even though it was in first person heroine POV!--and there was heroine growth in standing up to her friend, et al); and in this one, I suspect Adam is going to be more interesting to me than Eve. It will end up being Adam's story of discovery. *sighs*Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-20744149288307934592011-10-14T05:46:11.000-04:002011-10-14T05:46:11.000-04:00Sure, Marn...tell yourself that! Hee, hee.I recall...Sure, Marn...tell yourself that! Hee, hee.<br><br>I recall the discussion about contagonists. I'm not sure that would work with my books, especially the idea that their goals are working in contrast. But perhaps...<br><br>I mean, Ria wants to feel again, know the full range of emotions that are part of being human...which will force her to deal with committing suicide and the despair that drove her to that choice. She has a hellish amount of guilt. Which she pushes against due to the way she was raised. Guilt isn't something she can easily acknowledge... And how that works in contrast to Sam... I'd have to dive deeper into exactly how a protogonist and contagonist work...<br><br>Which would require more craft reading.<br><br>Sure. That will happen.<br><br>Maybe I'll just lurk around and hope you drop more clues about this mysterious relationship and go from there...2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-45611447808566980912011-10-14T05:50:14.000-04:002011-10-14T05:50:14.000-04:00Donna - I'm sure Deb spoke with more clarity r...Donna - I'm sure Deb spoke with more clarity regarding the different journies our characters make...but I'm drawing a blank and my notes wander about then. I must have been doodling about my sagging middle - the book, not me personally - and not been paying attention.<br><br>I do think there are different levels of the journey and I did find it fascinating to realize that the heart isn't always the emotional journey. When writing a couple driven story, one would think it had to be the emotional track. But when I consider who is getting the most attention and having to actually traverse the harder road, faced with the most decisions...it's not Ria.<br><br>I would imagine with first, it would almost have to be that character. The few shorts I've done in first would certainly lean that way.2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-30429635391597545952011-10-14T05:53:43.000-04:002011-10-14T05:53:43.000-04:00Hal - I didled with my opening scene over and over...Hal - I didled with my opening scene over and over, attempting to see what that would tell me, or reveal to me, about my two leads. I mean, he's watching her suicide video, coverage of her funeral, the testimonials of those who knew her in life... And it was fascinating to realize though all of that revealed a great deal about her...it actually set the book up to show his arc, more than hers.<br><br>I admit, when faced with a shift I simply went with it.<br><br>I admire your conviction to get back and shift yourself back into where you'd intended to go.<br><br>I am, obviously, more the nomad on this journey.<br><br>Or I'm just easily distracted.<br><br>Coffee...good...2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-54456087473109062442011-10-14T05:57:35.000-04:002011-10-14T05:57:35.000-04:00I've read The Kraken's Mirror and I'm ...I've read The Kraken's Mirror and I'm hard pressed to say that book leans more toward Silvestri. I've also read Hellie's GOGU and that book is totally Livie's story. IMO, of course. It's not like I wrote these things. <br><br>:)<br><br>My H/h sort of have the same goals, but they're approaches are different. Or their preconceived notions are, which puts them at odds. They eventually come to have the exact same goal. But that goal is what they "want" and not what they "need". Hence, the problem.<br><br>I realize that makes no sense to anyone but me. LOL!Bosunhttp://www.terriosburn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-87798067076444789132011-10-14T05:58:47.000-04:002011-10-14T05:58:47.000-04:00From what you've told me, I suspect you're...From what you've told me, I suspect you're on the money, Bo'sun. It would seem that one of the harder aspects of your current WIP is how Joe has to let Beth find herself.<br><br>Oooooh! Sounds so 60s, doesn't it?<br><br>I woke up in the midst of a dream where I was being 'tested' by priests and using meditation techniques to survive, ala the 60s and so my mind is naturally still bent that way...<br><br>But I digress!<br><br>Joe's journey is a simpler one, like Ria's. While Beth has to figure out so much more and assess her past in a more immediate way. I look forward to 'reading' how you do this!<br><br>Yeah, Marn's class sounds fascinating! Let me know if you find it somewhere, I'll do it with you. Otherwise, if I do it alone I'll slack off and not get the most out of it...2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-25669085046257656382011-10-14T06:00:41.000-04:002011-10-14T06:00:41.000-04:00I’ve also read Hellie’s GOGU and that book is tota...<i>I’ve also read Hellie’s GOGU and that book is totally Livie’s story.</i><br><br>Maybe it is, but everyone who's read it seem far more interested in Ben and his story. *LOL*Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-44208173768810328942011-10-14T06:02:09.000-04:002011-10-14T06:02:09.000-04:00Hellion - I sense...yes, you said this last week! ...Hellion - I sense...yes, you said this last week! Now, I have never disputed the idea of playing favorites. I was surprised when looking at my own work to realize the main character wasn't always the favorite...that was the aspect that fascinated me!<br><br>Whether you said it or Deb said it...does it matter? As long as it's said?<br><br>Do you need a hug this morning?<br><br>(Yes, full of 60s stuff this morn. It's the lack of deep sleep I'm currently suffering.)<br><br>I love this whole Adam/Eve/Lucifer dynamic you have going on. But really, shouldn't surprise you that it's Adam's story...she's a woman, she already gets it. He has to grow into it!2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-73153280607125585422011-10-14T06:05:30.000-04:002011-10-14T06:05:30.000-04:00Hey! Rapidly scanning blog...yeah, I said it was E...Hey! <br><br>Rapidly scanning blog...yeah, I said it was Emily's story. Not Silvestri. I wasn't sure but we chatted about this in Georgia and I saw you were right, it's Emily's story. I think partly because he does know what he needs and what he wants right up front. Where Emily? She is all over the place on that front!<br><br>I like that idea...preconceived notions are at odds while the goal is the same... I may steal that and contemplate what that means to what I'm writing. You may have unlocked my problem with the contagonist and protagonist concept!2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-9656491581282086022011-10-14T06:07:47.001-04:002011-10-14T06:07:47.001-04:00Maybe it is, but everyone who’s read it seem far m...<i>Maybe it is, but everyone who’s read it seem far more interested in Ben and his story. *LOL*</i><br><br>Which begs the question...is the author's favorite always the reader's favorite?<br><br>Man, the number of television shows I watch because of the side characters is immense. Leads are okay, but the others... I watch the Mentalist for Cho, for example. Something about that stoic faced Asian fascinates me...2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-81089664055528321002011-10-14T06:07:47.000-04:002011-10-14T06:07:47.000-04:00I know I didn't say it first--or even that Deb...I know I didn't say it first--or even that Deb said it first. I'm sure some dead ancient said it first. What irks the crap out of me is when *I* say it, I get argued with, but if someone else says it, you all think about it and then again. <br><br>It's like you guys would rather argue with me than agree with me.<br><br>And yes, I need a hug. I'm tired! My nose is stuffy! <br><br>No, they're BOTH going to have to come to some realizations. I think she's mad at Adam for taking her for granted, but I think she also rather resents him for "holding her back" or not letting her be herself, when she has to acknowledge she was the one doing those things and she should have done this long ago if this is what she really wanted. She has to realize that while she is mad at Adam for being a putz, she's really mad at herself for letting herself settle for so little.Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-21698212934065780892011-10-14T06:11:42.000-04:002011-10-14T06:11:42.000-04:00Oh, I think it's clear in the story that Ben i...Oh, I think it's clear in the story that Ben is the author's favorite. *LOL* I'd say Livie's got a huge growth arc in how she deals with her relationships--and Ben seems more "mature" in that aspect sometimes (like he doesn't seem to think one fight will break them up forever, whereas Livie does). Maybe Ben seems more interesting because he's the mystery. *shrugs*Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-31676411968235533642011-10-14T06:17:36.000-04:002011-10-14T06:17:36.000-04:00I'm more the as long as we all agree eventuall...I'm more the <i>as long as we all agree eventually, who cares who said it or when</i> sort of gal. I'm sure whatever discussion you fostered by bringing it up was enlightening, Hellion. That's what matters.<br><br>Oh, your sniffly? I'm not sure I want to hug you then... What the hell, I can take some vitamin C... <br><br>***HUG!***<br><br>From the sounds of it, Eve still is aware of herself and has a focus, or two, for who did what and what needs to change. Does Adam?<br><br>I know nothing about GOGU, so can't really venture an opinion there...2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-30452265667417971952011-10-14T06:39:19.000-04:002011-10-14T06:39:19.000-04:00WHEN have we ever argued on this particular topic?...WHEN have we ever argued on this particular topic? We have argued with you on others, but I have no memory of arguing on this one. On any front. You're now imagining arguments!<br><br>And Eve has a lot of anger to work through. That woman needs to let off some steam.<br><br>Happy to help, Chance! I said it was Emily's story? Hmmm... *taps chin* For the internal issues, that's right. Yes, it's Emily's story. Don't mind me, I'm doing four things at once!Bosunhttp://www.terriosburn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-84753662337376489742011-10-14T06:42:01.001-04:002011-10-14T06:42:01.001-04:00WHEN have we ever argued on this particular topic?...<i>WHEN have we ever argued on this particular topic? We have argued with you on others, but I have no memory of arguing on this one. On any front. You’re now imagining arguments!</i><br><br>WE have argued about this topic. You and I. I am not imagining arguments!Hellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-53896920392198579572011-10-14T06:42:01.000-04:002011-10-14T06:42:01.000-04:00Is Hels inventing arguments again? ;-)Yup, you and...Is Hels inventing arguments again? ;-)<br><br>Yup, you and I discussed this in Georgia... You took the stance that it was Emily's story. I contemplated it as Silvestri's story... You convinced me you were right!<br><br>Four things only? You having an off day?2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-10387414012819946242011-10-14T06:44:20.000-04:002011-10-14T06:44:20.000-04:00She's trying to create an argument over an arg...She's trying to create an argument over an argument that never happened. Is her Friday not exciting enough? <br><br>;)Bosunhttp://www.terriosburn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-40510995921699058912011-10-14T06:45:20.001-04:002011-10-14T06:45:20.001-04:00Fight! Fight! Fight!I love it, let's fight abo...Fight! Fight! Fight!<br><br>I love it, let's fight about a fight we may have had... ;-)2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-46192361028532536822011-10-14T06:45:20.000-04:002011-10-14T06:45:20.000-04:00And if she reverts back to some lame ass argument ...And if she reverts back to some lame ass argument I made in 2008 when I didn't know my ass from my elbow in regards to writing, I'm going to clip her hammock strings.Bosunhttp://www.terriosburn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-48919058040144119552011-10-14T06:47:47.000-04:002011-10-14T06:47:47.000-04:002008...where was I back then? Ah! Contemplating ac...2008...where was I back then? Ah! Contemplating actually submitting a MS...<br><br>I will not be held responsible for things I said back then. I was deep in the embrace of PTSD...that's my excuse.2nd Chancehttp://www.maureenobetita.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-13012115401983579232011-10-14T06:50:33.000-04:002011-10-14T06:50:33.000-04:00no! don't fight. We'll hug! *HUGS all aro...no! don't fight. We'll hug! *HUGS all around* "hal goes flitting off to hug everyone -- which is a big deal, as hal only hugs when it's necessary and generally avoids touching other human beings*halnoreply@blogger.com