tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post5534572741576713640..comments2023-05-24T08:06:43.882-04:00Comments on Romance Writer's Revenge: More Character Building: MotivationTerri Osburnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-20793526116646487602012-03-19T20:03:38.783-04:002012-03-19T20:03:38.783-04:00Exactly!!! Will they think she's a wimp, cryba...<i><br />Exactly!!! Will they think she's a wimp, crybaby, hypochondriac, b#tch, etc. etc. etc. Will they sympathize with her or ridicule her? Will they think her issues are valid or stupid? And what will they think of me for creating her! LOL *mass of insecurities*</i><br /><br />Well, that is when it's how you sell it. There are always going to be readers who you'll hit a sore spot with, no matter how well you write it or present it. Who will think you're being silly, etc. I saw that with reviews about The Kraken's Mirror and how different readers saw Emily.<br /><br />You cannot please everyone all the time. If you believe it, write it.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01517092592545660754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-81602103250022157332012-03-19T19:19:22.943-04:002012-03-19T19:19:22.943-04:00Great conversation and I had to go offline early. ...Great conversation and I had to go offline early. (Pooch is getting fixed on Friday and they had to do blood work today.) I thought the same thing about Pat's comment. <br /><br />We're ALL a mass of insecurities. LOL!<br /><br />I have issues from childhood, such as being the youngest and teased for being a cry baby. Which is probably why I get insecure about what the readers will think every time my heroine cries. But crying is real and it happens and I'm not going to make my heroine NEVER cry because I'm self-conscious about it.<br /><br />But my trauma probably came more as an adult. I'm trusting by nature, but after being the victim of infidelity in my marriage, I struggle to trust anyone now.Terri Osburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-90801306557676123732012-03-19T18:07:11.962-04:002012-03-19T18:07:11.962-04:00My problem with my heroine's issues isn't ...<i>My problem with my heroine's issues isn't so much my perceptions of her motivations, but my insecurities as to how others will see them.</i><br /><br />Exactly!!! Will they think she's a wimp, crybaby, hypochondriac, b#tch, etc. etc. etc. Will they sympathize with her or ridicule her? Will they think her issues are valid or stupid? And what will they think of me for creating her! LOL *mass of insecurities*irisheyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11730974733998991144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-45781788273801445902012-03-19T16:53:46.859-04:002012-03-19T16:53:46.859-04:00As always P.Kirby hit it upon the head:
1.) If yo...As always P.Kirby hit it upon the head:<br /><br />1.) If you want to write authentic people, know lots of people authentically. <br /><br />2.) And we're all nothing but quivering masses of insecurities. *LOL*Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-19078471306983644622012-03-19T16:52:46.859-04:002012-03-19T16:52:46.859-04:00Marn, it is. And yet we seem quite willing to get ...Marn, it is. And yet we seem quite willing to get back into the fray of it again, aren't we? *LOL* Maybe we like the stress? At least we know if we wait long enough, the dawn will come and so will the words.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-62684725167232132332012-03-19T16:48:00.008-04:002012-03-19T16:48:00.008-04:00"I really need to create a character who is r...<i>"I really need to create a character who is religious and who isn't a nutter... Would be a good challenge for me..."</i><br /><br />Oddly, writing a religious character isn't difficult for me, despite being an atheist. I've know plenty of sensible Christians, Jews and even a few Muslims. (I work for a church.) I understand why they believe, even if I myself am incapable of such belief. Of course, I'm disinclined to write about a religious fundamentalist, at least, not as a protagonist, because just...bleh.<br /><br />My problem with my heroine's issues isn't so much my perceptions of her motivations, but my insecurities as to how others will see them. Because, at the end of the day, I'm a quivering mass of insecurities.P. Kirbyhttp://www.patriciakirby.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-73770412179047227382012-03-19T16:28:00.817-04:002012-03-19T16:28:00.817-04:00t's like that line about driving at night with...<i> t's like that line about driving at night with your headlights. You can't see the whole distance, but you can see far enough ahead to keep going. </i><br /><br />I always thought this was so true. :) But then I get to that roadblock, somewhere between 50 and 65K. Then I end up stopping and staring at my navel for unknown amounts of time. It's quite distressing.Marnee Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01533816213473440342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-6717464155189322162012-03-19T15:59:20.989-04:002012-03-19T15:59:20.989-04:00I can think of several characters that would be a ...I can think of several characters that would be a good stretch to me. :) It really can be difficult to create characters and not make them caricatures of who they really are. Not let the "stereotype" overwhelm the human aspects that would balance the stereotype. (I think some typing profiling is fine, but typing doesn't carry through for the entire being.) We've all got a little of everything in each of us, but we have dominant strands that show most.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-2574377046588380142012-03-19T15:48:52.387-04:002012-03-19T15:48:52.387-04:00I really need to create a character who is religio...I really need to create a character who is religious and who isn't a nutter... Would be a good challenge for me...<br /><br />I think with finding the hero in the CEO...well, you'd have to see the CEO as secondary to what drives the character...<br /><br />But yeah...a religious CEO who isn't a villain would be one hella stretch fer me!Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01517092592545660754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-46666129246873006322012-03-19T15:44:12.116-04:002012-03-19T15:44:12.116-04:00I think that is why it can be tricky when deciding...<i>I think that is why it can be tricky when deciding on those issue for characters. You have to not only decide if they are the type to feel the lance...and if they are, what does that say about them? Without judging them by the standards of how you or I might react to the event.</i><br /><br />EXACTLY! What if you're an agnostic who creates a character (even a villain) who is really religious. Religion is real to that character; her belief system is true to her...you can't make it clear as the writer you think it's crazy or it will be clear you don't respect your characters and you can easily lose faith with your readers. Though then it runs the risk of "Are you limited in the kinds of characters you can tell stories about?"<br /><br />Actually I might be limited...I wouldn't be good at writing a CEO because I think they're all jerky rich people. *LOL* And that can't be true.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-63125924417361372392012-03-19T15:40:52.710-04:002012-03-19T15:40:52.710-04:00Marn, I think you're right. The Past would be ...Marn, I think you're right. The Past would be a better label than "childhood" because that's more a limiting frame of time. I just put childhood because I know that's where most of my neuroses come from. *LOL* But the things that happened to a couple characters I read, they were Big Traumas that happened when they were Young Adults. <br /><br />Writing with just enough to keep going--it's like that line about driving at night with your headlights. You can't see the whole distance, but you can see far enough ahead to keep going. That's definitely what I think most writing is, though we do have loose ideas of spots we'll stop at and touch on.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-63291681102561132722012-03-19T15:37:42.078-04:002012-03-19T15:37:42.078-04:00Mo, the run away method is also an important aspec...Mo, the run away method is also an important aspect of the process. That's the THINKING THROUGH stage where you don't realize you're still thinking about it. But I mean, when you've decided to come back, sometimes using these thoughts can unlock something important to get you going again. That's all.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-83284144267556362032012-03-19T15:37:37.665-04:002012-03-19T15:37:37.665-04:00I have to say that the thing about trauma, it how ...I have to say that the thing about trauma, it how personal it is. I mean, we've all seen it in real life. Those things that totally slide off on one person's back is like a lance to the heart of the next person.<br /><br />I think that is why it can be tricky when deciding on those issue for characters. You have to not only decide if they are the type to feel the lance...and if they are, what does that say about them? Without judging them by the standards of how you or I might react to the event.<br /><br />You want to respect your characters and allow them to experience according to their reality. Which may not be YOUR reality.<br /><br />I can tell when an author doesn't believe in how their characters are absorbing the sticks and stones of life. Those are writers I don't read again.<br /><br />I mean, even if I can't believe in it, they should!Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01517092592545660754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-25495942584139384942012-03-19T15:36:35.958-04:002012-03-19T15:36:35.958-04:00P.Kirby, I love when our ramblings can bring about...P.Kirby, I love when our ramblings can bring about some epiphanies. That's always awesome! :)<br /><br />Be careful of considering your heroine's internal issues trivial. *LOL* They'll sometimes let you have it and let you know just how untrivial their issues are. *LOL* Though I know we don't mean to trivialize ourselves or our characters...it seems to be something we're trained to do at an early age if we're girls.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-84317805615266186512012-03-19T15:13:52.548-04:002012-03-19T15:13:52.548-04:00Sorry I'm late. :) But I love this topic.
F...Sorry I'm late. :) But I love this topic.<br /><br />First, yay about being in RWR! I haven't managed to read the mag yet, but I had to look it up online when you mentioned that. :) SO cool!!<br /><br />Second, I think you're right about the motivation. Though I'd say that childhood could just be past. Because sometimes I think motivation comes out of some horrid event in adulthood that totally changes the life. <br /><br />As to clarifying my own character's motivations.... I always have to wait until close to the end. Then, I always hit that 50-65K mark and I go, "Crap! What is his/her deal?" And then I start digging in to why it is that they're getting on my nerves. Usually they're acting how they think they should be acting and I'm playing catch up, trying to define what makes them tick.Marnee Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01533816213473440342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-44564891363924825382012-03-19T14:53:40.486-04:002012-03-19T14:53:40.486-04:00Ah, for when I'm stuck...gods, it's hard t...Ah, for when I'm stuck...gods, it's hard to even think about the book when I'm stuck. I seem to subscribe to the 'run away' method...<br /><br />But I get what you're saying. And I'm going to put some effort into considering some of this when a scene feels like it's stuck. Though...I usually seem to concentrate on my motivation...<br /><br />;-)<br /><br />Let's torture the main character today! Let's make her cry today. Let's see him question if what he's doing is good for him or good for her...<br /><br />BWAH HA HA HA HA!<br /><br />I think this class sounds awesome and I want to pimp for it when you start taking sign ups...so...share the details!Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01517092592545660754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-67014405459347799482012-03-19T14:31:27.071-04:002012-03-19T14:31:27.071-04:00"'You don’t need to create the most helli...<i>"'You don’t need to create the most hellish childhood for your character to have a great story.' This is the one thing that throws me for a loop all the time. I have a hard time taking the everyday normal neurosis that my characters deal with and making them seem like they're a big deal. Because they are a big deal to them, they're what's stopping them from achieving their HEA"</i><br /><br />Oh, boy, I hear you. With my current WIP, as usual, my hero's motivations fell into place right away, in part because he has a big, bad dramatic backstory. Schmaltz and melodrama. My heroine's issues are largely internal, and while she's already one of my favorites female characters, her motivations sometimes seem trivial by comparison. (They're not; but like her, my perceptions aren't always driven by logic.)<br /><br />Anyway, it seems like ya'll have the makings of a great class. Your discussions are often helpful to me. As I was thought about your questions today, it occurred to me that my heroine and hero have issues with their [older] siblings that mirror each other rather closely. So, uh, tah-dah, epiphany!P. Kirbyhttp://www.patriciakirby.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-3189925929823228002012-03-19T14:05:09.829-04:002012-03-19T14:05:09.829-04:00Aww, shucks, Irish. Thanks! :)
I have that same p...Aww, shucks, Irish. Thanks! :)<br /><br />I have that same problem with comparison about everything! *LOL* What's fun is when we do this because we are trying to "put it in perspective" and be grateful for what we have, which is always a great thing, but sometimes doing that belittles our experience and ignores our hurts. First you need to acknowledge you were hurt and it wasn't fair and it wasn't right, then you can be grateful. But comparison is rarely, if ever, a helpful tool. <br /><br />I find having questions to ask to be a more useful writing tool than just being told something. The key to success is "Keep writing"--but to do that, you usually have to ask something to pursue, like, "What's the worse that could happen?" or "What if getting everything you wanted didn't make you happy? What is everything...and why aren't you happy?" You just need the right question to tip you in the right direction.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-8871702277586272362012-03-19T13:58:50.085-04:002012-03-19T13:58:50.085-04:00All the material for this course you two are teach...<i>All the material for this course you two are teaching sounds great--and very practical in terms of connecting ideas to one's own writing.</i><br /><br />Thank you, Janga, that sounds very reassuring from a veteran teacher/professor like yourself. I hope we're in the right direction of being inspiration and practical application. If there is anything we need to add (or cut to simplify), please feel free to advise. I would prefer to help writers and not ruin them entirely. *LOL*<br /><br />I also agree some secrets--big secrets--are hidden from the main character so they can better function in the world. And the revealing of the secret opens up a lot freer world to live and grow in. :) <br /><br />I think Terri has that book. It's one of the few craft books I don't actually own (can you believe it?) I need to get it from my library again and give it another whirl for recommendation. I'm all up for explaining what has worked for me, but definitely like to recommend more books that might also help that I have enjoyed.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-27084587644389159082012-03-19T13:54:33.142-04:002012-03-19T13:54:33.142-04:00Mo, organic is great. Really. I think some of the ...Mo, organic is great. Really. I think some of the best books are organically made. (Anne Gracie--ORGANIC). This is for when you're stuck. The class Terri and I are "teaching" (I use the word loosely) is supposed to be about putting yourself back into writing when you've fallen off. Figure out why you're stuck. <br /><br />If the process is working, of course you don't mess with it.Hellie Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933713255844695337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-41172627045404637942012-03-19T13:47:54.763-04:002012-03-19T13:47:54.763-04:00Oh, and YAY on you guys teaching a course on this ...Oh, and YAY on you guys teaching a course on this stuff. Sounds exciting!irisheyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11730974733998991144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-64011556486996821122012-03-19T13:46:58.076-04:002012-03-19T13:46:58.076-04:00I love this blog, Hellie. It all makes such sense...I love this blog, Hellie. It all makes such sense when you spell it out the way you do. <br /><br /><i>You don’t need to create the most hellish childhood for your character to have a great story.</i> This is the one thing that throws me for a loop all the time. I have a hard time taking the everyday normal neurosis that my characters deal with and making them seem like they're a big deal. Because they are a big deal to them, they're what's stopping them from achieving their HEA.<br /><br />I remember a therapist telling me once that abuse is abuse. Just because Sally was beaten and Robbie was ignored doesn't make her abuse any more valid than his. It's all in how it has affected them and how hard it is for them to move forward and deal with it.<br /><br />Those questions you posed at the end of the blog are awesome. I think I'll print them out and tape them by the computer! They are a great way to stay on track.irisheyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11730974733998991144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-20474482217023008272012-03-19T13:19:30.946-04:002012-03-19T13:19:30.946-04:00And YAY!! for entering the Prism awards!!! What is...And YAY!! for entering the Prism awards!!! What is their awards night theme this year?<br /><br />Janga - Self-sacrifice and forgiveness, huh? Those traits play signification parts in my MS. Learning that's a good thing just made my day. LOL!Terri Osburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-17729988704324540632012-03-19T13:17:55.871-04:002012-03-19T13:17:55.871-04:00Chance - A lot of this comes naturally for me too ...Chance - A lot of this comes naturally for me too but we're talking about when you're stuck. If a scene simply will not work, it's time to step back and look at the basics. Why did my character get into this mess? What's motivating him/her to get through this? What's his basic premise for how he lives his life?<br /><br />Answering these questions can get you moving again. If your hero is like mine and likes life simple, he's not volunteering to run for mayor. If your heroine is like mine and taught from birth to be a people pleaser, she's not going to be able to ignore the fact that someone doesn't like her. <br /><br />If your character has been cut off from her own humanity, she's not going to connect well with other humans. We're simply talking about tools to keep you going in the right direction. <br /><br />Hence, the Writer's Compass.Terri Osburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176989488447450585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-416913236621309814.post-36333016814986750732012-03-19T13:16:36.346-04:002012-03-19T13:16:36.346-04:00Chance - that's fantastic! Get thee to FedEx s...Chance - that's fantastic! Get thee to FedEx stat!Scapegoatnoreply@blogger.com